[e-users] Enlightenment is Ugly and Awful

[Jeff Hoogland]

Is basically the feedback I get from non-E users most times. Thoughts on
this?

Recent example ->
http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/27qt7k/bodhi_linux_300_rc1_released_ubuntu_1404_base/

[David Seikel]

On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 09:38:20 -0500 Jeff Hoogland

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Is basically the feedback I get from non-E users most times. Thoughts
on this?
Recent example ->
http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/27qt7k/bodhi_linux_300_rc1_released_ubuntu_1404_base/

Tell the people that think it looks "old" that they are fashion nazis,
and should create their own theme. Black is finally the new black. B-)

[Alan McKinnon]

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Is basically the feedback I get from non-E users most times. Thoughts on
this?
Recent example ->
http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/27qt7k/bodhi_linux_300_rc1_released_ubuntu_1404_base/

Jeff,


I feel the same way as those posters, just without the violence, insults
and lets-rip-Jeff-a-new-one-coz-we-can attitude :-)

Truth be told, most enlightenment themes out there are butt-ugly and
amateurish. But enlightenment is a tool, it paints on the canvas, and
it's very good at doing that. It can also only paint what the theme
tells it to paint.

Icons are the thing that does stand out the most - enlightenment's
internal built-in icons are nice, but they are also very different from
all the other application icons the user will have, it leads to an
inconsistent look. I've learned to live with it, but really slick icons
would be nice.

GUI design is hard, really hard, and takes a fanatical attention to
detail. I watch the web designers at work, sometimes they obsess about
an element's position to *one* pixel! It does show in the results though.

I think your main problem is that like a code lead, you can only work
with the submissions you get and what you write yourself. You only get
to work with themes that people submit (that one fellow's comment that
you are the team lead and therefore.... is about as unhelpful as it
gets), and good themes take a good artist. I'm no artist :-)

I think if you want to address the uglyness of some themes, you'd need
to get decent feedback from real artists who can point out aesthetic
flaws in a constructive way. Random arb users on reddit is not where you
will get that.

[William]

[Alan McKinnon]

Post by unknown
I have long played with the thought that perhaps there should be a
secondary, not so super-scary version of Enlightenment for "regular
Linux users". This would have to have a default interface with highly
refined aesthetics and functional defaults. It would also have to
utterly gut the settings panel, of... most things. Basically a stupid
version of Enlightenment. I think it could actually be popular, but I do
not feel it is my place to champion such an idea.

It's my belief that Jeff already made much progress to make this
possible - Bodhi offers 6 choices of layout to the user when first run,
and one of them follows the general pattern of pre-Win7 Windows and
default KDE.

It's quite simple to make these templates, they really are just standard
.e/e/ config files

With a "basic stupid" version, all the functionality of enlightenment is
still there, just not exposed

[William]

[Yomi Ogunwumi]

I don't worry too much about the Settings Panel horror, because at some
point in the future this will be fixed, apparently. ¹

I also don't play around with Settings too much because I get lost.

1 : https://phab.enlightenment.org/T553
-*Yomi*

Post by unknown
First a disclaimer: I Love Enlightenment and use it as my main
workstation OS. While I only started using it full-time last year, I
have been following it's development since 1997. As things stand, I
would not want to use another system.
The ugly and awful truth from my perspective: yes, Enlightenment is
ugly. However, ugly is misinterpreted as awful. Compounding the problem
is that Enlightenment is extraordinarily complex. I would venture to
guess that easily 99% of people who try Enlightenment give up on it
after less than two-hours. As all distros\WMs\DEs have a strong tendency
to troll one another to different degrees, users in all groups
universally troll against Enlightenment. I see it almost everyday.
What is the difference with me? I could not possibly care less about the
aesthetics of a user interface. It is what I can do with it that counts
- how I can arrange my workflow. In that respect, Enlightenment is the
most powerful environment available. My most favorite features is the
ability to tell one of my displays to be a tiling WM. It is not merely
the ability but the incredibly well thought out way it is designed. Of
course, if you are a new user, you may never know the functionality
exists since one must (comparatively) dig through a mountain of settings
to find it. There are numerous other interface features to Enlightenment
that I love, and when made to work together simply cannot be found
anywhere else - not even close. But the settings are another barrier to
entry. If you are not immediately turned off by Enlightenment's looks,
browsing through the settings will send most running. When everything is
approached at once through the settings panel, for many it is like
trying to chisel a tunnel through the moon with a hammer. Some of the
best settings are labeled in non-intuitive ways, and so are never
explored. To this day, there are settings that even I don't know what
they do. I fully appreciate why that may not be apparent to developers
and long time users.
I have long played with the thought that perhaps there should be a
secondary, not so super-scary version of Enlightenment for "regular
Linux users". This would have to have a default interface with highly
refined aesthetics and functional defaults. It would also have to
utterly gut the settings panel, of... most things. Basically a stupid
version of Enlightenment. I think it could actually be popular, but I do
not feel it is my place to champion such an idea. Further, it would
double the complexity of development, and I want to make sure *MY* ugly,
super-complicated, ultra-functional version of Enlightenment continues
to exist. I LOVE it the way it is. So I suppose I am actually against
the idea. Just the other day, I was on the elementary OS (polar opposite
of Enlightenment) Google+ board where I am very active since that's the
distro I put on other peoples computers. We were discussing the upcoming
tiling windows manager plugin for elementary OS. I mentioned that I use
Bodhi and briefly discussed its tiling feature. Of course, the hate
descended. My next to the last post on the matter reads as follows and I
"This is true. However, I care absolutely nothing about aesthetics. ( I
was desensitized after working with mainframes a long time ago) So in my
case, ugliness does not interfere with my user experience as it does
with others, and I don't mind extreme configuration. If elementary OS
was extremely ugly but otherwise had the interface features I like about
it, I would still love it just as much. Although I would not recommend
it, let only install it on other peoples computers as I otherwise do.
Much the same, I never ever recommend Bodhi or Enlightenment in general
to anyone under any circumstances."
You asked,
William

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Is basically the feedback I get from non-E users most times. Thoughts on
this?
Recent example ->

http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/27qt7k/bodhi_linux_300_rc1_released_ubuntu_1404_base/
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

[mk]

Jeff,

Red, orange, brown are not suitable colors for desktop environment. I suspect you used orange as a menu highlight to symbolically indicate that Bodhi is an ubuntu derivative.

Not a good choice. Take it out. Mark Shuttleworth is an artistic illiterate.

Think of this: why matadors use red (orange is basically red a bit of yellow added) to excite bulls? Why red is used to mark whorehouses? These colors are extremely disturbing psychologically speaking.

Here is a link on colors, explaining some basic things with examples.

http://www.hungarianambiance.com/2009/06/magic-of-simultaneous-contrast.html




On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 2:09:53 PM, Yomi Ogunwumi <***@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't worry too much about the Settings Panel horror, because at some
point in the future this will be fixed, apparently. ¹

I also don't play around with Settings too much because I get lost.

1 : https://phab.enlightenment.org/T553
-*Yomi*

Post by unknown
First a disclaimer: I Love Enlightenment and use it as my main
workstation OS. While I only started using it full-time last year, I
have been following it's development since 1997. As things stand, I
would not want to use another system.
The ugly and awful truth from my perspective: yes, Enlightenment is
ugly. However, ugly is misinterpreted as awful. Compounding the problem
is that Enlightenment is extraordinarily complex. I would venture to
guess that easily 99% of people who try Enlightenment give up on it
after less than two-hours. As all distros\WMs\DEs have a strong tendency
to troll one another to different degrees, users in all groups
universally troll against Enlightenment. I see it almost everyday.
What is the difference with me? I could not possibly care less about the
aesthetics of a user interface. It is what I can do with it that counts
- how I can arrange my workflow. In that respect, Enlightenment is the
most powerful environment available. My most favorite features is the
ability to tell one of my displays to be a tiling WM. It is not merely
the ability but the incredibly well thought out way it is designed. Of
course, if you are a new user, you may never know the functionality
exists since one must (comparatively) dig through a mountain of settings
to find it. There are numerous other interface features to Enlightenment
that I love, and when made to work together simply cannot be found
anywhere else - not even close. But the settings are another barrier to
entry. If you are not immediately turned off by Enlightenment's looks,
browsing through the settings will send most running. When everything is
approached at once through the settings panel, for many it is like
trying to chisel a tunnel through the moon with a hammer. Some of the
best settings are labeled in non-intuitive ways, and so are never
explored. To this day, there are settings that even I don't know what
they do. I fully appreciate why that may not be apparent to developers
and long time users.
I have long played with the thought that perhaps there should be a
secondary, not so super-scary version of Enlightenment for "regular
Linux users". This would have to have a default interface with highly
refined aesthetics and functional defaults.  It would also have to
utterly gut the settings panel, of... most things. Basically a stupid
version of Enlightenment. I think it could actually be popular, but I do
not feel it is my place to champion such an idea. Further, it would
double the complexity of development, and I want to make sure *MY* ugly,
super-complicated, ultra-functional version of Enlightenment continues
to exist. I LOVE it the way it is. So I suppose I am actually against
the idea. Just the other day, I was on the elementary OS (polar opposite
of Enlightenment) Google+ board where I am very active since that's the
distro I put on other peoples computers. We were discussing the upcoming
tiling windows manager plugin for elementary OS. I mentioned that I use
Bodhi and briefly discussed its tiling feature. Of course, the hate
descended. My next to the last post on the matter reads as follows and I
"This is true. However, I care absolutely nothing about aesthetics. ( I
was desensitized after working with mainframes a long time ago) So in my
case, ugliness does not interfere with my user experience as it does
with others, and I don't mind extreme configuration. If elementary OS
was extremely ugly but otherwise had the interface features I like about
it, I would still love it just as much. Although I would not recommend
it, let only install it on other peoples computers as I otherwise do.
Much the same, I never ever recommend Bodhi or Enlightenment in general
to anyone under any circumstances."
You asked,
William

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Is basically the feedback I get from non-E users most times. Thoughts on
this?
Recent example ->

http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/27qt7k/bodhi_linux_300_rc1_released_ubuntu_1404_base/
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

[Fan Cris]

people complain anyway. if is new then the old was better if keep the way
is not modern/ugly/...
look at firefox/opera/kde/gnome/...
full with heaters :)
i dont like your theme but im sure others will like it, keep your way :)

Post by mk
Jeff,
Red, orange, brown are not suitable colors for desktop environment. I
suspect you used orange as a menu highlight to symbolically indicate that
Bodhi is an ubuntu derivative.
Not a good choice. Take it out. Mark Shuttleworth is an artistic illiterate.
Think of this: why matadors use red (orange is basically red a bit of
yellow added) to excite bulls? Why red is used to mark whorehouses? These
colors are extremely disturbing psychologically speaking.
Here is a link on colors, explaining some basic things with examples.
http://www.hungarianambiance.com/2009/06/magic-of-simultaneous-contrast.html
I don't worry too much about the Settings Panel horror, because at some
point in the future this will be fixed, apparently. ¹
I also don't play around with Settings too much because I get lost.
1 : https://phab.enlightenment.org/T553
-*Yomi*

Post by unknown
First a disclaimer: I Love Enlightenment and use it as my main
workstation OS. While I only started using it full-time last year, I
have been following it's development since 1997. As things stand, I
would not want to use another system.
The ugly and awful truth from my perspective: yes, Enlightenment is
ugly. However, ugly is misinterpreted as awful. Compounding the problem
is that Enlightenment is extraordinarily complex. I would venture to
guess that easily 99% of people who try Enlightenment give up on it
after less than two-hours. As all distros\WMs\DEs have a strong tendency
to troll one another to different degrees, users in all groups
universally troll against Enlightenment. I see it almost everyday.
What is the difference with me? I could not possibly care less about the
aesthetics of a user interface. It is what I can do with it that counts
- how I can arrange my workflow. In that respect, Enlightenment is the
most powerful environment available. My most favorite features is the
ability to tell one of my displays to be a tiling WM. It is not merely
the ability but the incredibly well thought out way it is designed. Of
course, if you are a new user, you may never know the functionality
exists since one must (comparatively) dig through a mountain of settings
to find it. There are numerous other interface features to Enlightenment
that I love, and when made to work together simply cannot be found
anywhere else - not even close. But the settings are another barrier to
entry. If you are not immediately turned off by Enlightenment's looks,
browsing through the settings will send most running. When everything is
approached at once through the settings panel, for many it is like
trying to chisel a tunnel through the moon with a hammer. Some of the
best settings are labeled in non-intuitive ways, and so are never
explored. To this day, there are settings that even I don't know what
they do. I fully appreciate why that may not be apparent to developers
and long time users.
I have long played with the thought that perhaps there should be a
secondary, not so super-scary version of Enlightenment for "regular
Linux users". This would have to have a default interface with highly
refined aesthetics and functional defaults. It would also have to
utterly gut the settings panel, of... most things. Basically a stupid
version of Enlightenment. I think it could actually be popular, but I do
not feel it is my place to champion such an idea. Further, it would
double the complexity of development, and I want to make sure *MY* ugly,
super-complicated, ultra-functional version of Enlightenment continues
to exist. I LOVE it the way it is. So I suppose I am actually against
the idea. Just the other day, I was on the elementary OS (polar opposite
of Enlightenment) Google+ board where I am very active since that's the
distro I put on other peoples computers. We were discussing the upcoming
tiling windows manager plugin for elementary OS. I mentioned that I use
Bodhi and briefly discussed its tiling feature. Of course, the hate
descended. My next to the last post on the matter reads as follows and I
"This is true. However, I care absolutely nothing about aesthetics. ( I
was desensitized after working with mainframes a long time ago) So in my
case, ugliness does not interfere with my user experience as it does
with others, and I don't mind extreme configuration. If elementary OS
was extremely ugly but otherwise had the interface features I like about
it, I would still love it just as much. Although I would not recommend
it, let only install it on other peoples computers as I otherwise do.
Much the same, I never ever recommend Bodhi or Enlightenment in general
to anyone under any circumstances."
You asked,
William

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Is basically the feedback I get from non-E users most times. Thoughts

on

Post by unknown

Post by Jeff Hoogland
this?
Recent example ->

http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/27qt7k/bodhi_linux_300_rc1_released_ubuntu_1404_base/
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by unknown
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

[Christopher Barry]

Agreed. Bhodi's default theme is painful to look at. Read some Johannes
Itten, like 'elements of color'.

Post by mk
Jeff,
Red, orange, brown are not suitable colors for desktop environment. I
suspect you used orange as a menu highlight to symbolically indicate that
Bodhi is an ubuntu derivative.
Not a good choice. Take it out. Mark Shuttleworth is an artistic illiterate.
Think of this: why matadors use red (orange is basically red a bit of
yellow added) to excite bulls? Why red is used to mark whorehouses? These
colors are extremely disturbing psychologically speaking.
Here is a link on colors, explaining some basic things with examples.
http://www.hungarianambiance.com/2009/06/magic-of-simultaneous-contrast.html
I don't worry too much about the Settings Panel horror, because at some
point in the future this will be fixed, apparently. ¹
I also don't play around with Settings too much because I get lost.
1 : https://phab.enlightenment.org/T553
-*Yomi*

Post by unknown
First a disclaimer: I Love Enlightenment and use it as my main
workstation OS. While I only started using it full-time last year, I
have been following it's development since 1997. As things stand, I
would not want to use another system.
The ugly and awful truth from my perspective: yes, Enlightenment is
ugly. However, ugly is misinterpreted as awful. Compounding the problem
is that Enlightenment is extraordinarily complex. I would venture to
guess that easily 99% of people who try Enlightenment give up on it
after less than two-hours. As all distros\WMs\DEs have a strong tendency
to troll one another to different degrees, users in all groups
universally troll against Enlightenment. I see it almost everyday.
What is the difference with me? I could not possibly care less about the
aesthetics of a user interface. It is what I can do with it that counts
- how I can arrange my workflow. In that respect, Enlightenment is the
most powerful environment available. My most favorite features is the
ability to tell one of my displays to be a tiling WM. It is not merely
the ability but the incredibly well thought out way it is designed. Of
course, if you are a new user, you may never know the functionality
exists since one must (comparatively) dig through a mountain of settings
to find it. There are numerous other interface features to Enlightenment
that I love, and when made to work together simply cannot be found
anywhere else - not even close. But the settings are another barrier to
entry. If you are not immediately turned off by Enlightenment's looks,
browsing through the settings will send most running. When everything is
approached at once through the settings panel, for many it is like
trying to chisel a tunnel through the moon with a hammer. Some of the
best settings are labeled in non-intuitive ways, and so are never
explored. To this day, there are settings that even I don't know what
they do. I fully appreciate why that may not be apparent to developers
and long time users.
I have long played with the thought that perhaps there should be a
secondary, not so super-scary version of Enlightenment for "regular
Linux users". This would have to have a default interface with highly
refined aesthetics and functional defaults. It would also have to
utterly gut the settings panel, of... most things. Basically a stupid
version of Enlightenment. I think it could actually be popular, but I do
not feel it is my place to champion such an idea. Further, it would
double the complexity of development, and I want to make sure *MY* ugly,
super-complicated, ultra-functional version of Enlightenment continues
to exist. I LOVE it the way it is. So I suppose I am actually against
the idea. Just the other day, I was on the elementary OS (polar opposite
of Enlightenment) Google+ board where I am very active since that's the
distro I put on other peoples computers. We were discussing the upcoming
tiling windows manager plugin for elementary OS. I mentioned that I use
Bodhi and briefly discussed its tiling feature. Of course, the hate
descended. My next to the last post on the matter reads as follows and I
"This is true. However, I care absolutely nothing about aesthetics. ( I
was desensitized after working with mainframes a long time ago) So in my
case, ugliness does not interfere with my user experience as it does
with others, and I don't mind extreme configuration. If elementary OS
was extremely ugly but otherwise had the interface features I like about
it, I would still love it just as much. Although I would not recommend
it, let only install it on other peoples computers as I otherwise do.
Much the same, I never ever recommend Bodhi or Enlightenment in general
to anyone under any circumstances."
You asked,
William

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Is basically the feedback I get from non-E users most times. Thoughts

on

Post by unknown

Post by Jeff Hoogland
this?
Recent example ->

http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/27qt7k/bodhi_linux_300_rc1_released_ubuntu_1404_base/
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by unknown
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

[Jeff Hoogland]

Chris,

These same people complain about the default E theme and the dozens of E17
themes out there.


On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 4:08 PM, Christopher Barry <

Post by Christopher Barry
Agreed. Bhodi's default theme is painful to look at. Read some Johannes
Itten, like 'elements of color'.

Post by mk
Jeff,
Red, orange, brown are not suitable colors for desktop environment. I
suspect you used orange as a menu highlight to symbolically indicate that
Bodhi is an ubuntu derivative.
Not a good choice. Take it out. Mark Shuttleworth is an artistic illiterate.
Think of this: why matadors use red (orange is basically red a bit of
yellow added) to excite bulls? Why red is used to mark whorehouses? These
colors are extremely disturbing psychologically speaking.
Here is a link on colors, explaining some basic things with examples.

http://www.hungarianambiance.com/2009/06/magic-of-simultaneous-contrast.html

Post by mk
I don't worry too much about the Settings Panel horror, because at some
point in the future this will be fixed, apparently. ¹
I also don't play around with Settings too much because I get lost.
1 : https://phab.enlightenment.org/T553
-*Yomi*

Post by unknown
First a disclaimer: I Love Enlightenment and use it as my main
workstation OS. While I only started using it full-time last year, I
have been following it's development since 1997. As things stand, I
would not want to use another system.
The ugly and awful truth from my perspective: yes, Enlightenment is
ugly. However, ugly is misinterpreted as awful. Compounding the problem
is that Enlightenment is extraordinarily complex. I would venture to
guess that easily 99% of people who try Enlightenment give up on it
after less than two-hours. As all distros\WMs\DEs have a strong

tendency

Post by mk

Post by unknown
to troll one another to different degrees, users in all groups
universally troll against Enlightenment. I see it almost everyday.
What is the difference with me? I could not possibly care less about

the

Post by mk

Post by unknown
aesthetics of a user interface. It is what I can do with it that counts
- how I can arrange my workflow. In that respect, Enlightenment is the
most powerful environment available. My most favorite features is the
ability to tell one of my displays to be a tiling WM. It is not merely
the ability but the incredibly well thought out way it is designed. Of
course, if you are a new user, you may never know the functionality
exists since one must (comparatively) dig through a mountain of

settings

Post by mk

Post by unknown
to find it. There are numerous other interface features to

Enlightenment

Post by mk

Post by unknown
that I love, and when made to work together simply cannot be found
anywhere else - not even close. But the settings are another barrier to
entry. If you are not immediately turned off by Enlightenment's looks,
browsing through the settings will send most running. When everything

is

Post by mk

Post by unknown
approached at once through the settings panel, for many it is like
trying to chisel a tunnel through the moon with a hammer. Some of the
best settings are labeled in non-intuitive ways, and so are never
explored. To this day, there are settings that even I don't know what
they do. I fully appreciate why that may not be apparent to developers
and long time users.
I have long played with the thought that perhaps there should be a
secondary, not so super-scary version of Enlightenment for "regular
Linux users". This would have to have a default interface with highly
refined aesthetics and functional defaults. It would also have to
utterly gut the settings panel, of... most things. Basically a stupid
version of Enlightenment. I think it could actually be popular, but I

do

Post by mk

Post by unknown
not feel it is my place to champion such an idea. Further, it would
double the complexity of development, and I want to make sure *MY*

ugly,

Post by mk

Post by unknown
super-complicated, ultra-functional version of Enlightenment continues
to exist. I LOVE it the way it is. So I suppose I am actually against
the idea. Just the other day, I was on the elementary OS (polar

opposite

Post by mk

Post by unknown
of Enlightenment) Google+ board where I am very active since that's the
distro I put on other peoples computers. We were discussing the

upcoming

Post by mk

Post by unknown
tiling windows manager plugin for elementary OS. I mentioned that I use
Bodhi and briefly discussed its tiling feature. Of course, the hate
descended. My next to the last post on the matter reads as follows and

I

Post by mk

Post by unknown
"This is true. However, I care absolutely nothing about aesthetics. ( I
was desensitized after working with mainframes a long time ago) So in

my

Post by mk

Post by unknown
case, ugliness does not interfere with my user experience as it does
with others, and I don't mind extreme configuration. If elementary OS
was extremely ugly but otherwise had the interface features I like

about

Post by mk

Post by unknown
it, I would still love it just as much. Although I would not recommend
it, let only install it on other peoples computers as I otherwise do.
Much the same, I never ever recommend Bodhi or Enlightenment in general
to anyone under any circumstances."
You asked,
William

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Is basically the feedback I get from non-E users most times. Thoughts

on

Post by unknown

Post by Jeff Hoogland
this?
Recent example ->

http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/27qt7k/bodhi_linux_300_rc1_released_ubuntu_1404_base/
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by mk

Post by unknown
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk

Solutions

Post by mk

Post by unknown
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by mk
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by mk
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

[William]

[William]

[Jeff Hoogland]

It is just beyond frustrating that even here people are just linking
abstract ideas. What is a cut and dry solution? Give me hexcodes/RBG values
for things that are suppose to "look modern" and "mesh well".

I'm not an artist and I don't claim to be. I am just looking for reasonable
feedback that isn't "this sucks" to pass onto the folks working hard on
themes.

A side note would be that I really wish we had a stable theme API so
everything could stop breaking every year. Really makes it hard to trust
E/devote time to themeing.

Post by unknown
Jeff,
mk is actually on to something. I grew up with a dad who was a research
and development chemist. He specialized in... color. As a conseqence I
heard a lot about it and got roped into doing a couple science fairs
relating to the subject of color. As ironic as it is, I am an unusual
individual as I quite literally do not understand the concept of
"favorite color" I have no preference for any one over the other, which
is why (as I stated earlier) really don't care about aesthetics at all.
Apparently this is uncommon and puts me in a small statistical minority.
Google "psychology of color" or "color psychology" to get an idea of how
color usage affects people.

[Vinícius dos Santos Oliveira]

Post by Jeff Hoogland
It is just beyond frustrating that even here people are just linking
abstract ideas. What is a cut and dry solution? Give me hexcodes/RBG values
for things that are suppose to "look modern" and "mesh well".

What about using Tango[1]-themed icons?

And the Solarized[2] colorscheme is getting popular among developers.


[1] http://tango.freedesktop.org/
[2] http://ethanschoonover.com/solarized

[Markus Törnqvist]

Post by mk
Think of this: why matadors use red (orange is basically red a bit of yellow added) to excite bulls? Why red is used to mark whorehouses? These colors are extremely disturbing psychologically speaking.

As a piece of trivia, the Helsinki metro is a horrible orange;
Loading Image...
Loading Image...

The rationale I heard is that when they were originally building it
in the early 80s, they chose that color because they were afraid
hobos and others would start hanging out in the metros. This still
happens in the winters, but the color is meant to deter people.

I do use a red-ish theme, can't remember which one, at home but
on my laptop I only changed the background image on the default
theme and it's really cool that gtk2 apps now look the same. Wish
I hadn't put up with the default gtk looks for years and now it
looks like I have to do that with gtk3 :/

When I was on Window Maker I made some themes of my own.
Looking at these screenshots makes me feel like a kid again :D

But I do wish making themes for Enlightenment was as easy
as making wmaker themes back then.

A couple of band-related themes:
Loading Image...
Loading Image...
Loading Image...
which turned out annoying to be actually used, but good finger
practice.

I used this one for the longest time
Loading Image...

The one I ended up finally using was this because the image
is so cool. Guess it was a big hit at the time ;)
Loading Image...

But the story to be learned is that even a clueless kid like
I-back-then could tell what works and what doesn't. Most themes
for wmaker were crap - as were most for enlightenment.

Noticing this should be an encouragement for theme makers to
try a bit harder and I for one will read the links on color
theory here, because it's all pretty new to me :D

Hopefully get a theme or two ported that I used to use
to enlightenment some day, but even better :)

Is this still current?
http://www.bodhilinux.com/e17guide/e17guideEN/creating_themes.html

Wasn't there a GUI app for editing Edje files? Googling comes
up kinda empty, though there seem to be references to something...

Thanks!

[Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)]

Post by Markus Törnqvist

Post by mk
Think of this: why matadors use red (orange is basically red a bit of yellow
added) to excite bulls? Why red is used to mark whorehouses? These colors
are extremely disturbing psychologically speaking.

As a piece of trivia, the Helsinki metro is a horrible orange;
http://www.raitio.org/metro/kalusto/m100/m100_kuvat/109_ik.jpg
http://areena.yle.fi/static/mk/images/previews/ed/ed1d4916505e4c66a708711296167e2e/47945_preview_620.jpg
The rationale I heard is that when they were originally building it
in the early 80s, they chose that color because they were afraid
hobos and others would start hanging out in the metros. This still
happens in the winters, but the color is meant to deter people.
I do use a red-ish theme, can't remember which one, at home but
on my laptop I only changed the background image on the default
theme and it's really cool that gtk2 apps now look the same. Wish
I hadn't put up with the default gtk looks for years and now it
looks like I have to do that with gtk3 :/
When I was on Window Maker I made some themes of my own.
Looking at these screenshots makes me feel like a kid again :D
But I do wish making themes for Enlightenment was as easy
as making wmaker themes back then.
http://mjt.nysv.org/screenshots/entil-ajattara_theme.jpg
http://mjt.nysv.org/screenshots/entil-kotiteollisuus_theme.jpg
http://mjt.nysv.org/screenshots/entil-symphonyx_theme.jpg
which turned out annoying to be actually used, but good finger
practice.
I used this one for the longest time
http://mjt.nysv.org/screenshots/entil-alsashot.png
The one I ended up finally using was this because the image
is so cool. Guess it was a big hit at the time ;)
http://mjt.nysv.org/screenshots/unleash_tacgnol_theme_proto.png
But the story to be learned is that even a clueless kid like
I-back-then could tell what works and what doesn't. Most themes
for wmaker were crap - as were most for enlightenment.
Noticing this should be an encouragement for theme makers to
try a bit harder and I for one will read the links on color
theory here, because it's all pretty new to me :D
Hopefully get a theme or two ported that I used to use
to enlightenment some day, but even better :)
Is this still current?
http://www.bodhilinux.com/e17guide/e17guideEN/creating_themes.html
Wasn't there a GUI app for editing Edje files? Googling comes
up kinda empty, though there seem to be references to something...

there are several. editje in python, enventor is a new one in c (with text +
preview to the left), and eflete (a theme editor geared to elementary with
templates).

for you - i might suggest enventor right now.

but themes for e are massive beasts. there is a reason - they define just about
everything you see. in gory detail. animation, behavior, layout, padding,
sizing, styling, lighting, colors etc. - they are massively powerful. a theme
can just about turn the world upside down in gory nitty pixel-perfect detail
with scaling and resizing and all... but all that power comes with a cost -
complexity. :( you will find themes are not THAT complex, but they are BIG.
they are just more and more and more of ... stuff. ;)

Post by Markus Törnqvist
Thanks!
--
mjt
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

[Alberto Verdoja]

I agree. I've spend one year of free time (not all my free time, but a good
part) to create Radiance and another year for the super green and orange
Bodhi Forum Theme.
I haven't used a lot of GUI, anyway.
Good luck! :)

Post by mk

Post by Markus Törnqvist

Post by mk
Think of this: why matadors use red (orange is basically red a bit of

yellow

Post by Markus Törnqvist

Post by mk
added) to excite bulls? Why red is used to mark whorehouses? These

colors

Post by Markus Törnqvist

Post by mk
are extremely disturbing psychologically speaking.

As a piece of trivia, the Helsinki metro is a horrible orange;
http://www.raitio.org/metro/kalusto/m100/m100_kuvat/109_ik.jpg

http://areena.yle.fi/static/mk/images/previews/ed/ed1d4916505e4c66a708711296167e2e/47945_preview_620.jpg

Post by Markus Törnqvist
The rationale I heard is that when they were originally building it
in the early 80s, they chose that color because they were afraid
hobos and others would start hanging out in the metros. This still
happens in the winters, but the color is meant to deter people.
I do use a red-ish theme, can't remember which one, at home but
on my laptop I only changed the background image on the default
theme and it's really cool that gtk2 apps now look the same. Wish
I hadn't put up with the default gtk looks for years and now it
looks like I have to do that with gtk3 :/
When I was on Window Maker I made some themes of my own.
Looking at these screenshots makes me feel like a kid again :D
But I do wish making themes for Enlightenment was as easy
as making wmaker themes back then.
http://mjt.nysv.org/screenshots/entil-ajattara_theme.jpg
http://mjt.nysv.org/screenshots/entil-kotiteollisuus_theme.jpg
http://mjt.nysv.org/screenshots/entil-symphonyx_theme.jpg
which turned out annoying to be actually used, but good finger
practice.
I used this one for the longest time
http://mjt.nysv.org/screenshots/entil-alsashot.png
The one I ended up finally using was this because the image
is so cool. Guess it was a big hit at the time ;)
http://mjt.nysv.org/screenshots/unleash_tacgnol_theme_proto.png
But the story to be learned is that even a clueless kid like
I-back-then could tell what works and what doesn't. Most themes
for wmaker were crap - as were most for enlightenment.
Noticing this should be an encouragement for theme makers to
try a bit harder and I for one will read the links on color
theory here, because it's all pretty new to me :D
Hopefully get a theme or two ported that I used to use
to enlightenment some day, but even better :)
Is this still current?
http://www.bodhilinux.com/e17guide/e17guideEN/creating_themes.html
Wasn't there a GUI app for editing Edje files? Googling comes
up kinda empty, though there seem to be references to something...

there are several. editje in python, enventor is a new one in c (with text +
preview to the left), and eflete (a theme editor geared to elementary with
templates).
for you - i might suggest enventor right now.
but themes for e are massive beasts. there is a reason - they define just about
everything you see. in gory detail. animation, behavior, layout, padding,
sizing, styling, lighting, colors etc. - they are massively powerful. a theme
can just about turn the world upside down in gory nitty pixel-perfect detail
with scaling and resizing and all... but all that power comes with a cost -
complexity. :( you will find themes are not THAT complex, but they are BIG.
they are just more and more and more of ... stuff. ;)

Post by Markus Törnqvist
Thanks!
--
mjt

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by Markus Törnqvist
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

--
------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

[Markus Törnqvist]

Post by Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
there are several. editje in python, enventor is a new one in c (with text +
preview to the left), and eflete (a theme editor geared to elementary with
templates).

Editje looked like it's not exactly maintained. Not sure if I brushed it off
too lightly, but the manual gives 404. One Github repo/fork had commits from
years ago, which doesn't sound too nice as I understand the theme format just
changed...

Eflete complained like crazy. Does this have something to do with the format
change?

ERR<4538>:eo lib/eo/eo.c:600 _eo_call_resolve() in lib/edje/edje.eo.c:328: you called func 'edje_obj_signal_emit' (642) which is unknown in class 'Elm_Layout'.

Post by Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
for you - i might suggest enventor right now.

Thanks, but I couldn't make heads or tails out of it...

After I extracted the default theme's edj file and added the paths into
Enventor's path settings, I got complaints such as these:

edje_cc: Error. PARAMS:
edje_cc: Error. /home/mjt/tmp/default_theme/edc/comp.edc:1 unhandled keyword
group
edje_cc: Error. PARSE STACK:
group
edje_cc: Error. PARAMS:
ERR<8423>:edje lib/edje/edje_util.c:3098 _edje_size_min_restricted_calc() file /home/mjt/e18/share/enventor/themes/enventor.edj, group edit_layout has a non-fixed part 'elm.swallow.edit'. Adding 'fixed: 1 1;' to source EDC may help. Continuing discarding faulty part.
ERR<8423>:edje lib/edje/edje_util.c:3098 _edje_size_min_restricted_calc() file /home/mjt/e18/share/enventor/themes/enventor.edj, group edit_layout has a non-fixed part 'elm.swallow.edit'. Adding 'fixed: 1 1;' to source EDC may help. Continuing discarding faulty part.
ERR<8423>:edje lib/edje/edje_util.c:3101 _edje_size_min_restricted_calc() file /home/mjt/e18/share/enventor/themes/enventor.edj, group edit_layout overflowed 4000x4000 with minimum size of 414x8974. Continuing discarding faulty parts.

I watched the Youtube demo video, but somehow Enventor doesn't seem very easy to use.

So far I'd say Eflete looks like what I'd really like to use, but maybe
we have to wait for things to mature a bit. I don't think I'm devoted
enough to put the time and effort into tweaking the default theme with a text
editor, though it certainly looks like it's made to be tweaked :)

[unknown]

First a disclaimer: I Love Enlightenment and use it as my main
workstation OS. While I only started using it full-time last year, I
have been following it's development since 1997. As things stand, I
would not want to use another system.

The ugly and awful truth from my perspective: yes, Enlightenment is
ugly. However, ugly is misinterpreted as awful. Compounding the problem
is that Enlightenment is extraordinarily complex. I would venture to
guess that easily 99% of people who try Enlightenment give up on it
after less than two-hours. As all distros\WMs\DEs have a strong tendency
to troll one another to different degrees, users in all groups
universally troll against Enlightenment. I see it almost everyday.

What is the difference with me? I could not possibly care less about the
aesthetics of a user interface. It is what I can do with it that counts
- how I can arrange my workflow. In that respect, Enlightenment is the
most powerful environment available. My most favorite features is the
ability to tell one of my displays to be a tiling WM. It is not merely
the ability but the incredibly well thought out way it is designed. Of
course, if you are a new user, you may never know the functionality
exists since one must (comparatively) dig through a mountain of settings
to find it. There are numerous other interface features to Enlightenment
that I love, and when made to work together simply cannot be found
anywhere else - not even close. But the settings are another barrier to
entry. If you are not immediately turned off by Enlightenment's looks,
browsing through the settings will send most running. When everything is
approached at once through the settings panel, for many it is like
trying to chisel a tunnel through the moon with a hammer. Some of the
best settings are labeled in non-intuitive ways, and so are never
explored. To this day, there are settings that even I don't know what
they do. I fully appreciate why that may not be apparent to developers
and long time users.

I have long played with the thought that perhaps there should be a
secondary, not so super-scary version of Enlightenment for "regular
Linux users". This would have to have a default interface with highly
refined aesthetics and functional defaults. It would also have to
utterly gut the settings panel, of... most things. Basically a stupid
version of Enlightenment. I think it could actually be popular, but I do
not feel it is my place to champion such an idea. Further, it would
double the complexity of development, and I want to make sure *MY* ugly,
super-complicated, ultra-functional version of Enlightenment continues
to exist. I LOVE it the way it is. So I suppose I am actually against
the idea. Just the other day, I was on the elementary OS (polar opposite
of Enlightenment) Google+ board where I am very active since that's the
distro I put on other peoples computers. We were discussing the upcoming
tiling windows manager plugin for elementary OS. I mentioned that I use
Bodhi and briefly discussed its tiling feature. Of course, the hate
descended. My next to the last post on the matter reads as follows and I
think is most poignant:


"This is true. However, I care absolutely nothing about aesthetics. ( I
was desensitized after working with mainframes a long time ago) So in my
case, ugliness does not interfere with my user experience as it does
with others, and I don't mind extreme configuration. If elementary OS
was extremely ugly but otherwise had the interface features I like about
it, I would still love it just as much. Although I would not recommend
it, let only install it on other peoples computers as I otherwise do.
Much the same, I never ever recommend Bodhi or Enlightenment in general
to anyone under any circumstances."

You asked,

William

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Is basically the feedback I get from non-E users most times. Thoughts on
this?
Recent example ->
http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/27qt7k/bodhi_linux_300_rc1_released_ubuntu_1404_base/

[Ondřej Svoboda]

Jeff,

you are right that those guys do not really say anything helpful. I am
using the default theme and I find it both beautiful and usable, as well
as Enlightenment as a whole. It is very carefully engineered and not
getting in the way.

To me, the theme is "classic", yet very polished, reminding me of 90's,
in a good way. Not needlessly big, as elsewhere. I am not a designer but
I do not see a reason for everything becoming flat or bright; the look
is pretty this way, balanced.

I might point out though some little flaws that I did not have time to
report yet:

- The battery meter is not very readable to me (with 1.0 scaling). On
hover, the displayed numbers are WHITE, too small and positioned very
close to the "reflection" on the battery. I cannot deduce if the second
line is an estimation of time remaining. A little pop-up (after a click,
like with a calendar?) would do a better job, optionally. (Some
minimalist guys might want to stick to the two lines being displayed
over the battery icon.)

- Additionally, I believe it should distinguish the two states of
running on A/C vs. running on battery more sharply, even when the
battery is fully charged. The + sign when charging is too little. A
charging connector or another indication should be displayed when fully
charged and running on A/C.

- Third, I get the "battery too low" message too soon (at about 50% when
there is plenty of energy left)

I will post these as bugs as soon as I have time to do so.

Thank you and the team for the lot of work you have put into Enlightenment!
Ondra Svoboda

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Is basically the feedback I get from non-E users most times. Thoughts on
this?
Recent example ->
http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/27qt7k/bodhi_linux_300_rc1_released_ubuntu_1404_base/

[Martin Koelewijn]

Ugly: matter of taste. I've always liked the default themes a lot, and
some others in the old pre-E17 days. The color variations on the old
b&w theme not so much. Inconsistency with gtk themes is the problem for
me. It's very hard to find a good dark gtk theme, that doesn't mess up
web browsing in firefox for example or libre-office. Though probably
both programs are to blame as well.

Awful: well, maybe. I understand the 'gui principle': customize
everything with gui. But it's not always obvious. I don't understand
how the composite settings work. I only partly understand how the
evrything module settings work. I don't understand how the display
settings work (using extra monitors and stuff; on my pc I let the
nvidia drivers care, but on my laptop with intel drivers it's not
working well). Config files sometimes are easier. I have absolutely no
idea how phab(ricator) works. There is no users forum (besides nowadays
the bodhi forums) and I am banned from #e (probably with good reason,
but I have no idea why, maybe my irc client went berserk when I was
afk). Anyway: support isn't always easy to get.

All in all, I'm fixed on e because performance is good and I like most
of the underlying principles. It has no weird daemons, no bloat. There
are creative people behind it who add new stuff to the window
managers / desktop environments scene (think default themes, everything
module, terminology). I know my around it now and it's just more than
fine for me.

M



On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 09:38:20 -0500

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Is basically the feedback I get from non-E users most times. Thoughts
on this?
Recent example ->
http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/27qt7k/bodhi_linux_300_rc1_released_ubuntu_1404_base/

[Vinícius dos Santos Oliveira]

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Thoughts on
this?

It's a matter of taste.

Maybe if developers followed this user's advices, we'd have even more
hateful comments on this same thread.

My preferred E theme was the grunge theme, but E breaks compat with themes
too often and I think this is the reason why people are discouraged to
create E themes.

[unknown]

Post by Alan McKinnon

Post by unknown
I have long played with the thought that perhaps there should be a
secondary, not so super-scary version of Enlightenment for "regular
Linux users". This would have to have a default interface with highly
refined aesthetics and functional defaults. It would also have to
utterly gut the settings panel, of... most things. Basically a stupid
version of Enlightenment. I think it could actually be popular, but I do
not feel it is my place to champion such an idea.

It's my belief that Jeff already made much progress to make this
possible - Bodhi offers 6 choices of layout to the user when first run,
and one of them follows the general pattern of pre-Win7 Windows and
default KDE.
It's quite simple to make these templates, they really are just standard
.e/e/ config files
With a "basic stupid" version, all the functionality of enlightenment is
still there, just not exposed

I Don't disagree. Jeff has done a lot to simplify much about
Enlightenment. In fact, I was just about to write about that. I
especially like how easy breezy keeping the system up to date is. I also
think it's great how I just type "sudo apt-get install bodhi-desktop" on
a number of distros and bam! there it is as a DE choice at logon. That
alone offers more incentive to give it a try since people can install in
their favorite Ubuntu derivative rather than multi-boot just to try it.

And so I was about to write:

Jeff,

I will say that your work has gone a long way towards easing the
situation across the board. So I pose the question to you: You being the
one that brought this problem up, what more do you think you can do to
make things better? Personally I think pushing forward with aesthetics
is the way to go. Equally important, the settings panel needs two modes
of operation that can be toggled between: basic and advanced. Advanced
would be what the default as it is now, basic would limit presented
options and would be the new default view. Picking and choosing what
goes in what category could be tricky to a point. For example, a lot of
stuff under "Windows" could be hidden by default, with defaults already
chosen that mirror behaviors found in more popular distros. Also, I
don't know if the person working on the Radiance theme is an official
team member, but they were doing a fantastic job until 2 updates ago
when it suddenly turned ugly. Perhaps you need to expand your core dev
team to focus on the very artistic problems you mentioned?

[Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri]

everybody know it is ugly :-D what's the news?

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Is basically the feedback I get from non-E users most times. Thoughts on
this?
Recent example ->
http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/27qt7k/bodhi_linux_300_rc1_released_ubuntu_1404_base/
--
~Jeff Hoogland <http://jeffhoogland.com/>
Thoughts on Technology <http://jeffhoogland.blogspot.com/>, Tech Blog
Bodhi Linux <http://bodhilinux.com/>, Enlightenment for your Desktop
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

[unknown]

Jeff,

mk is actually on to something. I grew up with a dad who was a research
and development chemist. He specialized in... color. As a conseqence I
heard a lot about it and got roped into doing a couple science fairs
relating to the subject of color. As ironic as it is, I am an unusual
individual as I quite literally do not understand the concept of
"favorite color" I have no preference for any one over the other, which
is why (as I stated earlier) really don't care about aesthetics at all.
Apparently this is uncommon and puts me in a small statistical minority.
Google "psychology of color" or "color psychology" to get an idea of how
color usage affects people.

[meine]

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Is basically the feedback I get from non-E users most times. Thoughts on
this?

lots of people still don't understand that you are _not_ forced to drive a Trabant/Volkswagen/Opel/<stupid car> for the rest of your life if you don't want to. fancy a Viper, Ferrari, Tesla, Dacia or 2CV? be our guest!

the beauty of Linux is that you can change distro, desktop environment or/and window manager. and if you still don't like it, you can build your own theme or get the source code and make it the way you like it best. at no cost, without loss of data or productivity.

but people are just complaining and walking away from their own responsibility to make a better personal choice, surf an hour on the net and get something better. or dump it all and buy some over priced device with the window controls placed counter intuitively.

IMNHO this is the cost of making Linux available for the mono designed and Redmondish educated masses. Linux offers so much more than themes alone. but do lusers know? it will take a while for people to get used to the Freedom of Choice.

in the end they will catch it ;-)

[William]

[unknown]

While I admit that I never installed any, all of the e17 themes strike
me as highly individualistic, rather than something I would associate
with mass appeal.

Post by Jeff Hoogland
It is just beyond frustrating that even here people are just linking
abstract ideas. What is a cut and dry solution? Give me hexcodes/RBG values
for things that are suppose to "look modern" and "mesh well".
I'm not an artist and I don't claim to be. I am just looking for reasonable
feedback that isn't "this sucks" to pass onto the folks working hard on
themes.
A side note would be that I really wish we had a stable theme API so
everything could stop breaking every year. Really makes it hard to trust
E/devote time to themeing.

That's just it though, you are dealing with something that is abstract,
and I think this feedback has been reasonable. If there is someone out
there that can give you precise color codes and tell you just how to
apply them, they should probably be designing the theme in the first
place. I really hate to suggest this, but if the people designing themes
can't pull this off, maybe the wrong people are designing themes -
obviously the other DEs are pulling it off or we would not be having
this conversation. Although I do not know how to go about recruiting new
talent.

Perhaps you will consider the following more constructive: the way other
DE's seem to do this is by developing, posting, and getting feedback on
mock ups before committing to a design. This happens in a
wash-rinse-repeat fashion. They also work within more restrictive and
well established design parameters. Perhaps the theme API is too
flexible for its own good.

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Chris,
These same people complain about the default E theme and the dozens of E17
themes out there.
On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 4:08 PM, Christopher Barry <

Post by Christopher Barry
Agreed. Bhodi's default theme is painful to look at. Read some Johannes
Itten, like 'elements of color'.

Post by mk
Jeff,
Red, orange, brown are not suitable colors for desktop environment. I
suspect you used orange as a menu highlight to symbolically indicate that
Bodhi is an ubuntu derivative.
Not a good choice. Take it out. Mark Shuttleworth is an artistic
illiterate.
Think of this: why matadors use red (orange is basically red a bit of
yellow added) to excite bulls? Why red is used to mark whorehouses? These
colors are extremely disturbing psychologically speaking.
Here is a link on colors, explaining some basic things with examples.

http://www.hungarianambiance.com/2009/06/magic-of-simultaneous-contrast.html

Post by mk
I don't worry too much about the Settings Panel horror, because at some
point in the future this will be fixed, apparently. ¹
I also don't play around with Settings too much because I get lost.
1 : https://phab.enlightenment.org/T553
-*Yomi*

Post by unknown
First a disclaimer: I Love Enlightenment and use it as my main
workstation OS. While I only started using it full-time last year, I
have been following it's development since 1997. As things stand, I
would not want to use another system.
The ugly and awful truth from my perspective: yes, Enlightenment is
ugly. However, ugly is misinterpreted as awful. Compounding the problem
is that Enlightenment is extraordinarily complex. I would venture to
guess that easily 99% of people who try Enlightenment give up on it
after less than two-hours. As all distros\WMs\DEs have a strong

tendency

Post by mk

Post by unknown
to troll one another to different degrees, users in all groups
universally troll against Enlightenment. I see it almost everyday.
What is the difference with me? I could not possibly care less about

the

Post by mk

Post by unknown
aesthetics of a user interface. It is what I can do with it that counts
- how I can arrange my workflow. In that respect, Enlightenment is the
most powerful environment available. My most favorite features is the
ability to tell one of my displays to be a tiling WM. It is not merely
the ability but the incredibly well thought out way it is designed. Of
course, if you are a new user, you may never know the functionality
exists since one must (comparatively) dig through a mountain of

settings

Post by mk

Post by unknown
to find it. There are numerous other interface features to

Enlightenment

Post by mk

Post by unknown
that I love, and when made to work together simply cannot be found
anywhere else - not even close. But the settings are another barrier to
entry. If you are not immediately turned off by Enlightenment's looks,
browsing through the settings will send most running. When everything

is

Post by mk

Post by unknown
approached at once through the settings panel, for many it is like
trying to chisel a tunnel through the moon with a hammer. Some of the
best settings are labeled in non-intuitive ways, and so are never
explored. To this day, there are settings that even I don't know what
they do. I fully appreciate why that may not be apparent to developers
and long time users.
I have long played with the thought that perhaps there should be a
secondary, not so super-scary version of Enlightenment for "regular
Linux users". This would have to have a default interface with highly
refined aesthetics and functional defaults. It would also have to
utterly gut the settings panel, of... most things. Basically a stupid
version of Enlightenment. I think it could actually be popular, but I

do

Post by mk

Post by unknown
not feel it is my place to champion such an idea. Further, it would
double the complexity of development, and I want to make sure *MY*

ugly,

Post by mk

Post by unknown
super-complicated, ultra-functional version of Enlightenment continues
to exist. I LOVE it the way it is. So I suppose I am actually against
the idea. Just the other day, I was on the elementary OS (polar

opposite

Post by mk

Post by unknown
of Enlightenment) Google+ board where I am very active since that's the
distro I put on other peoples computers. We were discussing the

upcoming

Post by mk

Post by unknown
tiling windows manager plugin for elementary OS. I mentioned that I use
Bodhi and briefly discussed its tiling feature. Of course, the hate
descended. My next to the last post on the matter reads as follows and

I

Post by mk

Post by unknown
"This is true. However, I care absolutely nothing about aesthetics. ( I
was desensitized after working with mainframes a long time ago) So in

my

Post by mk

Post by unknown
case, ugliness does not interfere with my user experience as it does
with others, and I don't mind extreme configuration. If elementary OS
was extremely ugly but otherwise had the interface features I like

about

Post by mk

Post by unknown
it, I would still love it just as much. Although I would not recommend
it, let only install it on other peoples computers as I otherwise do.
Much the same, I never ever recommend Bodhi or Enlightenment in general
to anyone under any circumstances."
You asked,
William

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Is basically the feedback I get from non-E users most times. Thoughts

on

Post by unknown

Post by Jeff Hoogland
this?
Recent example ->

http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/27qt7k/bodhi_linux_300_rc1_released_ubuntu_1404_base/
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by mk

Post by unknown
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk

Solutions

Post by mk

Post by unknown
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by mk
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by mk
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

[unknown]

Post by meine
the beauty of Linux is that you can change distro, desktop environment or/and window manager. and if you still don't like it, you can build your own theme or get the source code and make it the way you like it best. at no cost, without loss of data or productivity.

This is the sort of entrenched Open Source cultural bias that, until
recently, has held Linux back. Just because you find distro hopping a
beautiful thing, does not mean the majority of modern "regular users"
do. Just because you come from a culture where you can break out the
source code, make changes and recompile "at no cost, without loss of
data or productivity." does not mean that "regular users" have the time
to put up with that, the skills to do it, or even have the ability to
develop the skills to do it. Saying that you need to learn to code to
use Linux is one of the oldest and most damaging clichés surrounding
Linux. In the world of modern Linux, we have a massive influx of users
from Windows and OS X who just want something that works and is
painfully simple to use with a redundant interface. Have you ever
noticed that themes for the likes of Mint and elementary OS don't
actually change much of anything but a few colors and icon sets?

Post by meine
but do lusers know?

Seriously? is this 1996?

Post by meine
it will take a while for people to get used to the Freedom of Choice.

I hate to break it to you, but it is the other way around. Linux needs
to adapt to users, not the other way around. The new, and most important
in the history of Linux, population of Linux users want mono-design.
They do not want or will they be hackers.

Post by meine

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Is basically the feedback I get from non-E users most times. Thoughts on
this?

lots of people still don't understand that you are _not_ forced to drive a Trabant/Volkswagen/Opel/<stupid car> for the rest of your life if you don't want to. fancy a Viper, Ferrari, Tesla, Dacia or 2CV? be our guest!
the beauty of Linux is that you can change distro, desktop environment or/and window manager. and if you still don't like it, you can build your own theme or get the source code and make it the way you like it best. at no cost, without loss of data or productivity.
but people are just complaining and walking away from their own responsibility to make a better personal choice, surf an hour on the net and get something better. or dump it all and buy some over priced device with the window controls placed counter intuitively.
IMNHO this is the cost of making Linux available for the mono designed and Redmondish educated masses. Linux offers so much more than themes alone. but do lusers know? it will take a while for people to get used to the Freedom of Choice.
in the end they will catch it ;-)

[Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)]

On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 09:38:20 -0500 Jeff Hoogland <***@Linux.com> said:

i'm going to respond here and include some stuff put into the thread so far.
before i do that note that several efl devs you'd want to talk to are not
subscribed to this mailing list, so expect you are seeing a subset of the
audience.

now covering some of the reddit comments. they are talking of the bodhi linux
theme, and at a personal level, i agree. i don't like it. why? color selection
for starters. orange and green. not a great choice. the default theme isn't an
accident. i actually did research. i didn't want to be light as frankly it's
glaring on the eyes and looking at a large set of our userbase, they like dark
themes. also it's "different" and thus makes e stand out. if e blends in and is
just like everything else, then from a marketing point of view, we have much
less to offer.

now the theme is dark (i chose dark greys so i could have some contrast and
difference between elements than pure black), with blue hilights. blue is NOT
an accident:

http://isp.netscape.com/whatsnew/package.jsp?name=fte/popularcolor/popularcolor
http://www.infoplease.com/spot/colors1.html
http://www.hgtv.com/color/the-5-most-popular-colors-from-hgtvcom/pictures/index.html
http://www.thetoptens.com/top-ten-favorite-colors/
http://forum.softpedia.com/topic/577468-culoarea-masinii-preferinte-in-diverse-zone-ale-globului/
http://autos.aol.com/article/color-study-2009/
http://www.mojomotors.com/blog/the-most-popular-car-colors/
http://www.catsynth.com/2007/01/fun-with-stats-most-popular-car-colors/

(i can continue finding references).

notice several things. black (or dark grey) and blue feature high in preferences
of people around the world. see the psychology one. black gives power and
authority, it also implies professionalism. blue implies peace and tranquility
and can improve productivity.

these choices are far from being an accident. also dark colors use less power
on oled panels. :)

now for being different. attracting attention. standing out. if we looked the
same, we'd blend in and then you find it hard to get people to switch. "you're
just the same!". they look at screenshots. they dont spend the time to use and
get to know e. they make their decisions on pretty pictures.

so the bodhi color choice i would say goes contrary to what is popular and is
"acceptable" for people. sure - the green stands out, but people don't really
like green for their ui. looking at the theme, it looks almost EXACTLY like a
green version of ubuntu. i look at it and go "ewww. uglier ubuntu.". it has no
character. it has no soul. it has no identity of its own. it's a copy of an
existing ui just with worse colors and less polish. you want specific feedback,
and this is it. at least from me. read up on color psychology and popularity
and then make a good choice. :)

the next problem is the ubuntu copy look. it just looks bad. it may blend well
with ubuntus mods to gtk so it fits, but then it provides no individual
character of its own. e then is just a poor copy of unity in ubuntu.

for e's default theme i chose the colors, then another concept - squareness. i
made my gtk match - see attached gtkrc. at least color-wise it doesn't stand out
glaringly like a sore thumb, but there is a limit to how well they can match.
back to the default. yes - i chose bevels with shadows and some gradients. yes
it's "old fashioned". the bitchers you see want something that looks just like
the flat design in the new osx or what google puts on their pages. they want it
because they love following fashion. in a few years fashion will change again.
i, for one, am not the kind of person who reads the fashion mags and buys a new
pare of pants, shoes etc. just because it's "the in thing this season", but
reality is a lot of people are just that and they will rain insults down on you
unless what you provide matches THEIR exact perceived idea of what is "cool"
today. i chose the bevels and shadows because there is a lot of ui precedent
that these are important. they indicate to a user that it is a BUTTON to be
CLICKED, as opposed to just some flat rectangle with some text in it. people
have no idea that they can CLICK that. to them it is a passive label. i stopped
listening to fashion followers long ago, because all you end up with is a
continual chasing of the latest trend. reality is that everyone has different
tastes and THAT is what themes are for. we don't really have the manpower to do
more than a single well polished theme. we just don't have artists. even the
default theme is lacking. it lacks many icons it should have. the icons should
be consistent and match the theme, but there just hasn't been time to work on
it all. likely there never will be.

yes - the icons in the default theme need work. now for the bodhi theme. take a
look at the icons in your screenshot, the "i" icon in the about windows has a
pure green that kind of clashes with the green int he background. some icons -
like the about theme one, come from tango. the epad icon looks starkly
different to the pkgkit shield icon to its right. icons should follow the same
style, same look, same lighting and choose colors that don't clash or look
garish. again - this is something an artist understands it's the words to be
given to those that do the artwork.

if you follow that reddit thread talking of webupd8 all the negative comments
are pretty much a "you're not being fashionable!". but then again... several of
the comments are pointing out bodhi mods - like the big red shiny power button
that is basically an early-osx style glassy shine slapped into a ui that is grey
and matte. it just doesn't fit. draw an icon that fits - either an inset grey
power icon or maybe a blue glowing one, but something that matches the scheme.
the button doesn't match at all. it's out of place. that red power button may
be a module you can remove.. but people JUDGE on screenshots - as above. you
want screenshots to look clean and consistent REGARDLESS of style. yes e's
default style has bevels and 3d - but given the comments people actually don't
mind that a lot of the time. it's when you go overboard with shiny glassy
effects that then don't fit, that people start to mock. and they are right. it
looks amateurish. if you have a style, define it and stick to it - everywhere.
again other complaints about "the horrible gradient in the fm sidebar"... that
is a mode from bodhi changing the default. yes - the default could do with more
polish - especially icons, BUT the ad-hoc mods that just don't fit in stand out
and look bad. a lot of comments are personal, color preference "lighter
please" (and you get the revers if you are light). this is something i wanted
to do eventually - generate a mid grey and light version of the default theme
from the original, BUT i just haven't gotten to it and i'd want to polish it up
more. i only made colorclasses work again recently. simotek has been working on
his scripts and tools to generate new colors versions of the default and that
is good. they at least look consistent and polished.

also there needs to be control. edje files are insanely complex. they can do a
hell of a lot. a lot of the design is in restricting what you do. keeping to a
simple and consistent subset of colors, shapes and concepts. bad themes just
turn on everything including the kitchen sink.

also another note. all the HAPPY users go away and be happy. they stay quiet.
you hear the noise of the UNHAPPY ones, so it always looks out of proportion.
there is also always a large set of noisy trolls that love to beat down on
anything but their favorite chosen thing.

summary - don't do half-arsed themes. do a full completely done and consistent
theme that pays attention to color phsychology. don't mix and match styles and
components. so dot your i's, cross your t's. make your screenshots LOOK GOOD.
people will judge you on them. most will. choose conservative colors in general
and make sure everything is polished and consistent. that is what lends quality
to something.

yes the config dialogs are a mess. it's 10 years of config option addition one
after another. it needs a re-do, but the time just hasn't been there as other
things are more important to where the resources come from (EFL itself, wayland
etc.). if i had the time, i'd have redone all the icons by now and have a
decent icon theme that ships with e that has 100's of the icons needed to cover
most apps. but i don't. :(

does this help?

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Is basically the feedback I get from non-E users most times. Thoughts on
this?
Recent example ->
http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/27qt7k/bodhi_linux_300_rc1_released_ubuntu_1404_base/
--
~Jeff Hoogland <http://jeffhoogland.com/>
Thoughts on Technology <http://jeffhoogland.blogspot.com/>, Tech Blog
Bodhi Linux <http://bodhilinux.com/>, Enlightenment for your Desktop
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

[Jeff Hoogland]

They aren't just talking about the Bodhi theme. They are talking about E in
general.

That web update thread goes back to a point where we don't have a "default"
Bodhi theme - we have a selection of themes at startup which includes your
dark default theme.

What doesn't look consistent and/or polished about our current theme for
3.0.0? Just like the default - it can come in many different colors, so
saying "green is bad" is a cop out. As many have mentioned it looks fairly
similar to unity - which many of these same people complaining about how E
looks/functions are happy with.

Post by Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
i'm going to respond here and include some stuff put into the thread so far.
before i do that note that several efl devs you'd want to talk to are not
subscribed to this mailing list, so expect you are seeing a subset of the
audience.
now covering some of the reddit comments. they are talking of the bodhi linux
theme, and at a personal level, i agree. i don't like it. why? color selection
for starters. orange and green. not a great choice. the default theme isn't an
accident. i actually did research. i didn't want to be light as frankly it's
glaring on the eyes and looking at a large set of our userbase, they like dark
themes. also it's "different" and thus makes e stand out. if e blends in and is
just like everything else, then from a marketing point of view, we have much
less to offer.
now the theme is dark (i chose dark greys so i could have some contrast and
difference between elements than pure black), with blue hilights. blue is NOT
http://isp.netscape.com/whatsnew/package.jsp?name=fte/popularcolor/popularcolor
http://www.infoplease.com/spot/colors1.html
http://www.hgtv.com/color/the-5-most-popular-colors-from-hgtvcom/pictures/index.html
http://www.thetoptens.com/top-ten-favorite-colors/
http://forum.softpedia.com/topic/577468-culoarea-masinii-preferinte-in-diverse-zone-ale-globului/
http://autos.aol.com/article/color-study-2009/
http://www.mojomotors.com/blog/the-most-popular-car-colors/
http://www.catsynth.com/2007/01/fun-with-stats-most-popular-car-colors/
(i can continue finding references).
notice several things. black (or dark grey) and blue feature high in preferences
of people around the world. see the psychology one. black gives power and
authority, it also implies professionalism. blue implies peace and tranquility
and can improve productivity.
these choices are far from being an accident. also dark colors use less power
on oled panels. :)
now for being different. attracting attention. standing out. if we looked the
same, we'd blend in and then you find it hard to get people to switch. "you're
just the same!". they look at screenshots. they dont spend the time to use and
get to know e. they make their decisions on pretty pictures.
so the bodhi color choice i would say goes contrary to what is popular and is
"acceptable" for people. sure - the green stands out, but people don't really
like green for their ui. looking at the theme, it looks almost EXACTLY like a
green version of ubuntu. i look at it and go "ewww. uglier ubuntu.". it has no
character. it has no soul. it has no identity of its own. it's a copy of an
existing ui just with worse colors and less polish. you want specific feedback,
and this is it. at least from me. read up on color psychology and popularity
and then make a good choice. :)
the next problem is the ubuntu copy look. it just looks bad. it may blend well
with ubuntus mods to gtk so it fits, but then it provides no individual
character of its own. e then is just a poor copy of unity in ubuntu.
for e's default theme i chose the colors, then another concept - squareness. i
made my gtk match - see attached gtkrc. at least color-wise it doesn't stand out
glaringly like a sore thumb, but there is a limit to how well they can match.
back to the default. yes - i chose bevels with shadows and some gradients. yes
it's "old fashioned". the bitchers you see want something that looks just like
the flat design in the new osx or what google puts on their pages. they want it
because they love following fashion. in a few years fashion will change again.
i, for one, am not the kind of person who reads the fashion mags and buys a new
pare of pants, shoes etc. just because it's "the in thing this season", but
reality is a lot of people are just that and they will rain insults down on you
unless what you provide matches THEIR exact perceived idea of what is "cool"
today. i chose the bevels and shadows because there is a lot of ui precedent
that these are important. they indicate to a user that it is a BUTTON to be
CLICKED, as opposed to just some flat rectangle with some text in it. people
have no idea that they can CLICK that. to them it is a passive label. i stopped
listening to fashion followers long ago, because all you end up with is a
continual chasing of the latest trend. reality is that everyone has different
tastes and THAT is what themes are for. we don't really have the manpower to do
more than a single well polished theme. we just don't have artists. even the
default theme is lacking. it lacks many icons it should have. the icons should
be consistent and match the theme, but there just hasn't been time to work on
it all. likely there never will be.
yes - the icons in the default theme need work. now for the bodhi theme. take a
look at the icons in your screenshot, the "i" icon in the about windows has a
pure green that kind of clashes with the green int he background. some icons -
like the about theme one, come from tango. the epad icon looks starkly
different to the pkgkit shield icon to its right. icons should follow the same
style, same look, same lighting and choose colors that don't clash or look
garish. again - this is something an artist understands it's the words to be
given to those that do the artwork.
if you follow that reddit thread talking of webupd8 all the negative comments
are pretty much a "you're not being fashionable!". but then again... several of
the comments are pointing out bodhi mods - like the big red shiny power button
that is basically an early-osx style glassy shine slapped into a ui that is grey
and matte. it just doesn't fit. draw an icon that fits - either an inset grey
power icon or maybe a blue glowing one, but something that matches the scheme.
the button doesn't match at all. it's out of place. that red power button may
be a module you can remove.. but people JUDGE on screenshots - as above. you
want screenshots to look clean and consistent REGARDLESS of style. yes e's
default style has bevels and 3d - but given the comments people actually don't
mind that a lot of the time. it's when you go overboard with shiny glassy
effects that then don't fit, that people start to mock. and they are right. it
looks amateurish. if you have a style, define it and stick to it - everywhere.
again other complaints about "the horrible gradient in the fm sidebar"... that
is a mode from bodhi changing the default. yes - the default could do with more
polish - especially icons, BUT the ad-hoc mods that just don't fit in stand out
and look bad. a lot of comments are personal, color preference "lighter
please" (and you get the revers if you are light). this is something i wanted
to do eventually - generate a mid grey and light version of the default theme
from the original, BUT i just haven't gotten to it and i'd want to polish it up
more. i only made colorclasses work again recently. simotek has been working on
his scripts and tools to generate new colors versions of the default and that
is good. they at least look consistent and polished.
also there needs to be control. edje files are insanely complex. they can do a
hell of a lot. a lot of the design is in restricting what you do. keeping to a
simple and consistent subset of colors, shapes and concepts. bad themes just
turn on everything including the kitchen sink.
also another note. all the HAPPY users go away and be happy. they stay quiet.
you hear the noise of the UNHAPPY ones, so it always looks out of proportion.
there is also always a large set of noisy trolls that love to beat down on
anything but their favorite chosen thing.
summary - don't do half-arsed themes. do a full completely done and consistent
theme that pays attention to color phsychology. don't mix and match styles and
components. so dot your i's, cross your t's. make your screenshots LOOK GOOD.
people will judge you on them. most will. choose conservative colors in general
and make sure everything is polished and consistent. that is what lends quality
to something.
yes the config dialogs are a mess. it's 10 years of config option addition one
after another. it needs a re-do, but the time just hasn't been there as other
things are more important to where the resources come from (EFL itself, wayland
etc.). if i had the time, i'd have redone all the icons by now and have a
decent icon theme that ships with e that has 100's of the icons needed to cover
most apps. but i don't. :(
does this help?

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Is basically the feedback I get from non-E users most times. Thoughts on
this?
Recent example ->

http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/27qt7k/bodhi_linux_300_rc1_released_ubuntu_1404_base/

Post by Jeff Hoogland
--
~Jeff Hoogland <http://jeffhoogland.com/>
Thoughts on Technology <http://jeffhoogland.blogspot.com/>, Tech Blog
Bodhi Linux <http://bodhilinux.com/>, Enlightenment for your Desktop

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by Jeff Hoogland
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

--
------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------

[Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)]

Post by Jeff Hoogland
They aren't just talking about the Bodhi theme. They are talking about E in
general.

i read the thread - the reddit one, and they are. when they are specific:

"Looks like a baby took a shit on your screen as you were taking screenshots.
Suggestion, use less baby shit green. I hope you find this new information
helpful."

and they continue down that thread. green in the bodhi theme screenshot. the
original comment from bitchessuck was ambiguous but during that thead he
clearly seems to be talking of the bodhi theme. more comments on the bodhi
screenshot thread:

"Some things are subjective, but others aren't. Consider color schemes or
consistency."

"Yeah, but only slightly I should also mention the fonts are too large, and the
icons are awful."

"The icon size isn't the problem, although the size of one of the icons is off.
The icons have wildly different style, the power icon is just ugly and badly
drawn, and the meaning of those icons is hard to guess. Alignment is also a bit
off."

in fact the majority of comments on the reddit thread are clearly about the
bodhi theme thread, with others ambiguous.

the webupd8 one i quoted below - the things people specifically criticize OTHER
than "it's dark and i don't like dark" (which was basically one guy) and "it
doesn't look flat and modern" were about poor mismatching in the ui - the red
glossy class shiny power button for example. the awful gradients in efm thanks
to the different theme.

i took the time out to read the entire reddit thread and webupd8 thread. there
is a pattern:

1. people don't like the half-arsed themes with inconsistency.
2. there are a bunch of people who think it must be modern and flat or then it
sucks
3. there are some people who don't like dark stuff

there are ALSO people who indicate they LIKE the non-flat look also in those
threads. there are people who indicate they LIKE the dark. some like these,
some don't, but i saw no one champion inconsistent looks.

Post by Jeff Hoogland
That web update thread goes back to a point where we don't have a "default"
Bodhi theme - we have a selection of themes at startup which includes your
dark default theme.
What doesn't look consistent and/or polished about our current theme for
3.0.0? Just like the default - it can come in many different colors, so
saying "green is bad" is a cop out. As many have mentioned it looks fairly
similar to unity - which many of these same people complaining about how E
looks/functions are happy with.

didn't i repeat it often enough below?

PEOPLE JUDGE YOU ON YOUR SCREENSHOTS.

they don't see the other colors - they see the one image on that blog post and
then make their decision. it's not a copy out. you asked what all that response
is about - it is about the screenshot on your blog. webup8 is about the set of
screenshots in the article above.

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
i'm going to respond here and include some stuff put into the thread so far.
before i do that note that several efl devs you'd want to talk to are not
subscribed to this mailing list, so expect you are seeing a subset of the
audience.
now covering some of the reddit comments. they are talking of the bodhi linux
theme, and at a personal level, i agree. i don't like it. why? color selection
for starters. orange and green. not a great choice. the default theme isn't an
accident. i actually did research. i didn't want to be light as frankly it's
glaring on the eyes and looking at a large set of our userbase, they like dark
themes. also it's "different" and thus makes e stand out. if e blends in and is
just like everything else, then from a marketing point of view, we have much
less to offer.
now the theme is dark (i chose dark greys so i could have some contrast and
difference between elements than pure black), with blue hilights. blue is NOT
http://isp.netscape.com/whatsnew/package.jsp?name=fte/popularcolor/popularcolor
http://www.infoplease.com/spot/colors1.html
http://www.hgtv.com/color/the-5-most-popular-colors-from-hgtvcom/pictures/index.html
http://www.thetoptens.com/top-ten-favorite-colors/
http://forum.softpedia.com/topic/577468-culoarea-masinii-preferinte-in-diverse-zone-ale-globului/
http://autos.aol.com/article/color-study-2009/
http://www.mojomotors.com/blog/the-most-popular-car-colors/
http://www.catsynth.com/2007/01/fun-with-stats-most-popular-car-colors/
(i can continue finding references).
notice several things. black (or dark grey) and blue feature high in preferences
of people around the world. see the psychology one. black gives power and
authority, it also implies professionalism. blue implies peace and tranquility
and can improve productivity.
these choices are far from being an accident. also dark colors use less power
on oled panels. :)
now for being different. attracting attention. standing out. if we looked the
same, we'd blend in and then you find it hard to get people to switch. "you're
just the same!". they look at screenshots. they dont spend the time to use and
get to know e. they make their decisions on pretty pictures.
so the bodhi color choice i would say goes contrary to what is popular and is
"acceptable" for people. sure - the green stands out, but people don't really
like green for their ui. looking at the theme, it looks almost EXACTLY like a
green version of ubuntu. i look at it and go "ewww. uglier ubuntu.". it has no
character. it has no soul. it has no identity of its own. it's a copy of an
existing ui just with worse colors and less polish. you want specific feedback,
and this is it. at least from me. read up on color psychology and popularity
and then make a good choice. :)
the next problem is the ubuntu copy look. it just looks bad. it may blend well
with ubuntus mods to gtk so it fits, but then it provides no individual
character of its own. e then is just a poor copy of unity in ubuntu.
for e's default theme i chose the colors, then another concept - squareness. i
made my gtk match - see attached gtkrc. at least color-wise it doesn't stand out
glaringly like a sore thumb, but there is a limit to how well they can match.
back to the default. yes - i chose bevels with shadows and some gradients. yes
it's "old fashioned". the bitchers you see want something that looks just like
the flat design in the new osx or what google puts on their pages. they want it
because they love following fashion. in a few years fashion will change again.
i, for one, am not the kind of person who reads the fashion mags and buys a new
pare of pants, shoes etc. just because it's "the in thing this season", but
reality is a lot of people are just that and they will rain insults down on you
unless what you provide matches THEIR exact perceived idea of what is "cool"
today. i chose the bevels and shadows because there is a lot of ui precedent
that these are important. they indicate to a user that it is a BUTTON to be
CLICKED, as opposed to just some flat rectangle with some text in it. people
have no idea that they can CLICK that. to them it is a passive label. i stopped
listening to fashion followers long ago, because all you end up with is a
continual chasing of the latest trend. reality is that everyone has different
tastes and THAT is what themes are for. we don't really have the manpower to do
more than a single well polished theme. we just don't have artists. even the
default theme is lacking. it lacks many icons it should have. the icons should
be consistent and match the theme, but there just hasn't been time to work on
it all. likely there never will be.
yes - the icons in the default theme need work. now for the bodhi theme. take a
look at the icons in your screenshot, the "i" icon in the about windows has a
pure green that kind of clashes with the green int he background. some icons -
like the about theme one, come from tango. the epad icon looks starkly
different to the pkgkit shield icon to its right. icons should follow the same
style, same look, same lighting and choose colors that don't clash or look
garish. again - this is something an artist understands it's the words to be
given to those that do the artwork.
if you follow that reddit thread talking of webupd8 all the negative comments
are pretty much a "you're not being fashionable!". but then again... several of
the comments are pointing out bodhi mods - like the big red shiny power button
that is basically an early-osx style glassy shine slapped into a ui that is grey
and matte. it just doesn't fit. draw an icon that fits - either an inset grey
power icon or maybe a blue glowing one, but something that matches the scheme.
the button doesn't match at all. it's out of place. that red power button may
be a module you can remove.. but people JUDGE on screenshots - as above. you
want screenshots to look clean and consistent REGARDLESS of style. yes e's
default style has bevels and 3d - but given the comments people actually don't
mind that a lot of the time. it's when you go overboard with shiny glassy
effects that then don't fit, that people start to mock. and they are right. it
looks amateurish. if you have a style, define it and stick to it - everywhere.
again other complaints about "the horrible gradient in the fm sidebar"... that
is a mode from bodhi changing the default. yes - the default could do with more
polish - especially icons, BUT the ad-hoc mods that just don't fit in stand out
and look bad. a lot of comments are personal, color preference "lighter
please" (and you get the revers if you are light). this is something i wanted
to do eventually - generate a mid grey and light version of the default theme
from the original, BUT i just haven't gotten to it and i'd want to polish it up
more. i only made colorclasses work again recently. simotek has been working on
his scripts and tools to generate new colors versions of the default and that
is good. they at least look consistent and polished.
also there needs to be control. edje files are insanely complex. they can do a
hell of a lot. a lot of the design is in restricting what you do. keeping to a
simple and consistent subset of colors, shapes and concepts. bad themes just
turn on everything including the kitchen sink.
also another note. all the HAPPY users go away and be happy. they stay quiet.
you hear the noise of the UNHAPPY ones, so it always looks out of proportion.
there is also always a large set of noisy trolls that love to beat down on
anything but their favorite chosen thing.
summary - don't do half-arsed themes. do a full completely done and consistent
theme that pays attention to color phsychology. don't mix and match styles and
components. so dot your i's, cross your t's. make your screenshots LOOK GOOD.
people will judge you on them. most will. choose conservative colors in general
and make sure everything is polished and consistent. that is what lends quality
to something.
yes the config dialogs are a mess. it's 10 years of config option addition one
after another. it needs a re-do, but the time just hasn't been there as other
things are more important to where the resources come from (EFL itself, wayland
etc.). if i had the time, i'd have redone all the icons by now and have a
decent icon theme that ships with e that has 100's of the icons needed to cover
most apps. but i don't. :(
does this help?

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Is basically the feedback I get from non-E users most times. Thoughts on
this?
Recent example ->

http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/27qt7k/bodhi_linux_300_rc1_released_ubuntu_1404_base/

Post by Jeff Hoogland
--
~Jeff Hoogland <http://jeffhoogland.com/>
Thoughts on Technology <http://jeffhoogland.blogspot.com/>, Tech Blog
Bodhi Linux <http://bodhilinux.com/>, Enlightenment for your Desktop

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by Jeff Hoogland
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

--
------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------

--
~Jeff Hoogland <http://jeffhoogland.com/>
Thoughts on Technology <http://jeffhoogland.blogspot.com/>, Tech Blog
Bodhi Linux <http://bodhilinux.com/>, Enlightenment for your Desktop
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

[Martin Koelewijn]

@raster: I'm curious about the gtkrc you made. The attachment, as usual,
failed to arrive at the mailing list. Could you paste it somewhere and
share the link? Thanks.

M

Post by Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)

Post by Jeff Hoogland
They aren't just talking about the Bodhi theme. They are talking about E

in

Post by Jeff Hoogland
general.

"Looks like a baby took a shit on your screen as you were taking screenshots.
Suggestion, use less baby shit green. I hope you find this new information
helpful."
and they continue down that thread. green in the bodhi theme screenshot. the
original comment from bitchessuck was ambiguous but during that thead he
clearly seems to be talking of the bodhi theme. more comments on the bodhi
"Some things are subjective, but others aren't. Consider color schemes or
consistency."
"Yeah, but only slightly I should also mention the fonts are too large, and the
icons are awful."
"The icon size isn't the problem, although the size of one of the icons is off.
The icons have wildly different style, the power icon is just ugly and badly
drawn, and the meaning of those icons is hard to guess. Alignment is also a bit
off."
in fact the majority of comments on the reddit thread are clearly about the
bodhi theme thread, with others ambiguous.
the webupd8 one i quoted below - the things people specifically criticize OTHER
than "it's dark and i don't like dark" (which was basically one guy) and "it
doesn't look flat and modern" were about poor mismatching in the ui - the red
glossy class shiny power button for example. the awful gradients in efm thanks
to the different theme.
i took the time out to read the entire reddit thread and webupd8 thread. there
1. people don't like the half-arsed themes with inconsistency.
2. there are a bunch of people who think it must be modern and flat or then it
sucks
3. there are some people who don't like dark stuff
there are ALSO people who indicate they LIKE the non-flat look also in those
threads. there are people who indicate they LIKE the dark. some like these,
some don't, but i saw no one champion inconsistent looks.

Post by Jeff Hoogland
That web update thread goes back to a point where we don't have a

"default"

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Bodhi theme - we have a selection of themes at startup which includes

your

Post by Jeff Hoogland
dark default theme.
What doesn't look consistent and/or polished about our current theme for
3.0.0? Just like the default - it can come in many different colors, so
saying "green is bad" is a cop out. As many have mentioned it looks

fairly

Post by Jeff Hoogland
similar to unity - which many of these same people complaining about how

E

Post by Jeff Hoogland
looks/functions are happy with.

didn't i repeat it often enough below?
PEOPLE JUDGE YOU ON YOUR SCREENSHOTS.
they don't see the other colors - they see the one image on that blog post and
then make their decision. it's not a copy out. you asked what all that response
is about - it is about the screenshot on your blog. webup8 is about the set of
screenshots in the article above.

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 09:38:20 -0500 Jeff Hoogland
i'm going to respond here and include some stuff put into the thread so far.
before i do that note that several efl devs you'd want to talk to are

not

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
subscribed to this mailing list, so expect you are seeing a subset of

the

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
audience.
now covering some of the reddit comments. they are talking of the bodhi linux
theme, and at a personal level, i agree. i don't like it. why? color selection
for starters. orange and green. not a great choice. the default theme isn't an
accident. i actually did research. i didn't want to be light as frankly it's
glaring on the eyes and looking at a large set of our userbase, they

like

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
dark
themes. also it's "different" and thus makes e stand out. if e blends

in

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
and is
just like everything else, then from a marketing point of view, we have much
less to offer.
now the theme is dark (i chose dark greys so i could have some

contrast and

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
difference between elements than pure black), with blue hilights. blue

is

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
NOT

http://isp.netscape.com/whatsnew/package.jsp?name=fte/popularcolor/popularcolor

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
http://www.infoplease.com/spot/colors1.html

http://www.hgtv.com/color/the-5-most-popular-colors-from-hgtvcom/pictures/index.html

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
http://www.thetoptens.com/top-ten-favorite-colors/

http://forum.softpedia.com/topic/577468-culoarea-masinii-preferinte-in-diverse-zone-ale-globului/

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
http://autos.aol.com/article/color-study-2009/
http://www.mojomotors.com/blog/the-most-popular-car-colors/

http://www.catsynth.com/2007/01/fun-with-stats-most-popular-car-colors/

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
(i can continue finding references).
notice several things. black (or dark grey) and blue feature high in preferences
of people around the world. see the psychology one. black gives power

and

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
authority, it also implies professionalism. blue implies peace and tranquility
and can improve productivity.
these choices are far from being an accident. also dark colors use less power
on oled panels. :)
now for being different. attracting attention. standing out. if we

looked

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
the
same, we'd blend in and then you find it hard to get people to switch. "you're
just the same!". they look at screenshots. they dont spend the time to

use

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
and
get to know e. they make their decisions on pretty pictures.
so the bodhi color choice i would say goes contrary to what is popular

and

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
is
"acceptable" for people. sure - the green stands out, but people don't really
like green for their ui. looking at the theme, it looks almost EXACTLY like a
green version of ubuntu. i look at it and go "ewww. uglier ubuntu.". it has no
character. it has no soul. it has no identity of its own. it's a copy

of an

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
existing ui just with worse colors and less polish. you want specific feedback,
and this is it. at least from me. read up on color psychology and popularity
and then make a good choice. :)
the next problem is the ubuntu copy look. it just looks bad. it may

blend

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
well
with ubuntus mods to gtk so it fits, but then it provides no individual
character of its own. e then is just a poor copy of unity in ubuntu.
for e's default theme i chose the colors, then another concept - squareness. i
made my gtk match - see attached gtkrc. at least color-wise it doesn't stand out
glaringly like a sore thumb, but there is a limit to how well they can match.
back to the default. yes - i chose bevels with shadows and some

gradients.

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
yes
it's "old fashioned". the bitchers you see want something that looks

just

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
like
the flat design in the new osx or what google puts on their pages. they want it
because they love following fashion. in a few years fashion will change again.
i, for one, am not the kind of person who reads the fashion mags and

buys

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
a new
pare of pants, shoes etc. just because it's "the in thing this

season", but

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
reality is a lot of people are just that and they will rain insults

down

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
on you
unless what you provide matches THEIR exact perceived idea of what is "cool"
today. i chose the bevels and shadows because there is a lot of ui precedent
that these are important. they indicate to a user that it is a BUTTON

to be

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
CLICKED, as opposed to just some flat rectangle with some text in it. people
have no idea that they can CLICK that. to them it is a passive label. i stopped
listening to fashion followers long ago, because all you end up with

is a

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
continual chasing of the latest trend. reality is that everyone has different
tastes and THAT is what themes are for. we don't really have the

manpower

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
to do
more than a single well polished theme. we just don't have artists.

even

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
the
default theme is lacking. it lacks many icons it should have. the icons should
be consistent and match the theme, but there just hasn't been time to

work

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
on
it all. likely there never will be.
yes - the icons in the default theme need work. now for the bodhi

theme.

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
take a
look at the icons in your screenshot, the "i" icon in the about windows has a
pure green that kind of clashes with the green int he background. some icons -
like the about theme one, come from tango. the epad icon looks starkly
different to the pkgkit shield icon to its right. icons should follow

the

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
same
style, same look, same lighting and choose colors that don't clash or

look

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
garish. again - this is something an artist understands it's the words

to

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
be
given to those that do the artwork.
if you follow that reddit thread talking of webupd8 all the negative comments
are pretty much a "you're not being fashionable!". but then again... several of
the comments are pointing out bodhi mods - like the big red shiny power button
that is basically an early-osx style glassy shine slapped into a ui

that

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
is grey
and matte. it just doesn't fit. draw an icon that fits - either an

inset

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
grey
power icon or maybe a blue glowing one, but something that matches the scheme.
the button doesn't match at all. it's out of place. that red power

button

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
may
be a module you can remove.. but people JUDGE on screenshots - as

above.

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
you
want screenshots to look clean and consistent REGARDLESS of style. yes

e's

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
default style has bevels and 3d - but given the comments people

actually

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
don't
mind that a lot of the time. it's when you go overboard with shiny

glassy

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
effects that then don't fit, that people start to mock. and they are right. it
looks amateurish. if you have a style, define it and stick to it - everywhere.
again other complaints about "the horrible gradient in the fm

sidebar"...

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
that
is a mode from bodhi changing the default. yes - the default could do

with

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
more
polish - especially icons, BUT the ad-hoc mods that just don't fit in stand out
and look bad. a lot of comments are personal, color preference "lighter
please" (and you get the revers if you are light). this is something i wanted
to do eventually - generate a mid grey and light version of the default theme
from the original, BUT i just haven't gotten to it and i'd want to

polish

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
it up
more. i only made colorclasses work again recently. simotek has been working on
his scripts and tools to generate new colors versions of the default

and

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
that
is good. they at least look consistent and polished.
also there needs to be control. edje files are insanely complex. they

can

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
do a
hell of a lot. a lot of the design is in restricting what you do.

keeping

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
to a
simple and consistent subset of colors, shapes and concepts. bad themes just
turn on everything including the kitchen sink.
also another note. all the HAPPY users go away and be happy. they stay quiet.
you hear the noise of the UNHAPPY ones, so it always looks out of proportion.
there is also always a large set of noisy trolls that love to beat

down on

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
anything but their favorite chosen thing.
summary - don't do half-arsed themes. do a full completely done and consistent
theme that pays attention to color phsychology. don't mix and match

styles

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
and
components. so dot your i's, cross your t's. make your screenshots LOOK GOOD.
people will judge you on them. most will. choose conservative colors in general
and make sure everything is polished and consistent. that is what lends quality
to something.
yes the config dialogs are a mess. it's 10 years of config option

addition

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
one
after another. it needs a re-do, but the time just hasn't been there as other
things are more important to where the resources come from (EFL itself, wayland
etc.). if i had the time, i'd have redone all the icons by now and

have a

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
decent icon theme that ships with e that has 100's of the icons needed

to

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
cover
most apps. but i don't. :(
does this help?

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Is basically the feedback I get from non-E users most times.

Thoughts on

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel

Post by Jeff Hoogland
this?
Recent example ->

http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/27qt7k/bodhi_linux_300_rc1_released_ubuntu_1404_base/

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel

Post by Jeff Hoogland
--
~Jeff Hoogland <http://jeffhoogland.com/>
Thoughts on Technology <http://jeffhoogland.blogspot.com/>, Tech

Blog

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Bodhi Linux <http://bodhilinux.com/>, Enlightenment for your Desktop

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel

Post by Jeff Hoogland
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk

Solutions

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

--
------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am"

--------------

Post by Jeff Hoogland
--
~Jeff Hoogland <http://jeffhoogland.com/>
Thoughts on Technology <http://jeffhoogland.blogspot.com/>, Tech Blog
Bodhi Linux <http://bodhilinux.com/>, Enlightenment for your Desktop

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by Jeff Hoogland
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

--
------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

[Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)]

Post by Martin Koelewijn
@raster: I'm curious about the gtkrc you made. The attachment, as usual,
failed to arrive at the mailing list. Could you paste it somewhere and
share the link? Thanks.

https://phab.enlightenment.org/file/info/PHID-FILE-dpri745rnyuhghdlljdn/

Post by Martin Koelewijn
M

Post by Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)

Post by Jeff Hoogland
They aren't just talking about the Bodhi theme. They are talking about E

in

Post by Jeff Hoogland
general.

"Looks like a baby took a shit on your screen as you were taking screenshots.
Suggestion, use less baby shit green. I hope you find this new information
helpful."
and they continue down that thread. green in the bodhi theme screenshot. the
original comment from bitchessuck was ambiguous but during that thead he
clearly seems to be talking of the bodhi theme. more comments on the bodhi
"Some things are subjective, but others aren't. Consider color schemes or
consistency."
"Yeah, but only slightly I should also mention the fonts are too large, and the
icons are awful."
"The icon size isn't the problem, although the size of one of the icons is off.
The icons have wildly different style, the power icon is just ugly and badly
drawn, and the meaning of those icons is hard to guess. Alignment is also a bit
off."
in fact the majority of comments on the reddit thread are clearly about the
bodhi theme thread, with others ambiguous.
the webupd8 one i quoted below - the things people specifically criticize OTHER
than "it's dark and i don't like dark" (which was basically one guy) and "it
doesn't look flat and modern" were about poor mismatching in the ui - the red
glossy class shiny power button for example. the awful gradients in efm thanks
to the different theme.
i took the time out to read the entire reddit thread and webupd8 thread. there
1. people don't like the half-arsed themes with inconsistency.
2. there are a bunch of people who think it must be modern and flat or then it
sucks
3. there are some people who don't like dark stuff
there are ALSO people who indicate they LIKE the non-flat look also in those
threads. there are people who indicate they LIKE the dark. some like these,
some don't, but i saw no one champion inconsistent looks.

Post by Jeff Hoogland
That web update thread goes back to a point where we don't have a

"default"

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Bodhi theme - we have a selection of themes at startup which includes

your

Post by Jeff Hoogland
dark default theme.
What doesn't look consistent and/or polished about our current theme for
3.0.0? Just like the default - it can come in many different colors, so
saying "green is bad" is a cop out. As many have mentioned it looks

fairly

Post by Jeff Hoogland
similar to unity - which many of these same people complaining about how

E

Post by Jeff Hoogland
looks/functions are happy with.

didn't i repeat it often enough below?
PEOPLE JUDGE YOU ON YOUR SCREENSHOTS.
they don't see the other colors - they see the one image on that blog post and
then make their decision. it's not a copy out. you asked what all that response
is about - it is about the screenshot on your blog. webup8 is about the set of
screenshots in the article above.

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 09:38:20 -0500 Jeff Hoogland
i'm going to respond here and include some stuff put into the thread so far.
before i do that note that several efl devs you'd want to talk to are

not

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
subscribed to this mailing list, so expect you are seeing a subset of

the

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
audience.
now covering some of the reddit comments. they are talking of the bodhi linux
theme, and at a personal level, i agree. i don't like it. why? color selection
for starters. orange and green. not a great choice. the default theme isn't an
accident. i actually did research. i didn't want to be light as frankly it's
glaring on the eyes and looking at a large set of our userbase, they

like

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
dark
themes. also it's "different" and thus makes e stand out. if e blends

in

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
and is
just like everything else, then from a marketing point of view, we have much
less to offer.
now the theme is dark (i chose dark greys so i could have some

contrast and

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
difference between elements than pure black), with blue hilights. blue

is

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
NOT

http://isp.netscape.com/whatsnew/package.jsp?name=fte/popularcolor/popularcolor

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
http://www.infoplease.com/spot/colors1.html

http://www.hgtv.com/color/the-5-most-popular-colors-from-hgtvcom/pictures/index.html

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
http://www.thetoptens.com/top-ten-favorite-colors/

http://forum.softpedia.com/topic/577468-culoarea-masinii-preferinte-in-diverse-zone-ale-globului/

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
http://autos.aol.com/article/color-study-2009/
http://www.mojomotors.com/blog/the-most-popular-car-colors/

http://www.catsynth.com/2007/01/fun-with-stats-most-popular-car-colors/

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
(i can continue finding references).
notice several things. black (or dark grey) and blue feature high in
preferences
of people around the world. see the psychology one. black gives power

and

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
authority, it also implies professionalism. blue implies peace and tranquility
and can improve productivity.
these choices are far from being an accident. also dark colors use less power
on oled panels. :)
now for being different. attracting attention. standing out. if we

looked

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
the
same, we'd blend in and then you find it hard to get people to switch. "you're
just the same!". they look at screenshots. they dont spend the time to

use

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
and
get to know e. they make their decisions on pretty pictures.
so the bodhi color choice i would say goes contrary to what is popular

and

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
is
"acceptable" for people. sure - the green stands out, but people don't really
like green for their ui. looking at the theme, it looks almost EXACTLY like a
green version of ubuntu. i look at it and go "ewww. uglier ubuntu.". it has no
character. it has no soul. it has no identity of its own. it's a copy

of an

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
existing ui just with worse colors and less polish. you want specific feedback,
and this is it. at least from me. read up on color psychology and popularity
and then make a good choice. :)
the next problem is the ubuntu copy look. it just looks bad. it may

blend

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
well
with ubuntus mods to gtk so it fits, but then it provides no individual
character of its own. e then is just a poor copy of unity in ubuntu.
for e's default theme i chose the colors, then another concept - squareness. i
made my gtk match - see attached gtkrc. at least color-wise it doesn't
stand out
glaringly like a sore thumb, but there is a limit to how well they can match.
back to the default. yes - i chose bevels with shadows and some

gradients.

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
yes
it's "old fashioned". the bitchers you see want something that looks

just

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
like
the flat design in the new osx or what google puts on their pages. they want it
because they love following fashion. in a few years fashion will change again.
i, for one, am not the kind of person who reads the fashion mags and

buys

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
a new
pare of pants, shoes etc. just because it's "the in thing this

season", but

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
reality is a lot of people are just that and they will rain insults

down

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
on you
unless what you provide matches THEIR exact perceived idea of what is "cool"
today. i chose the bevels and shadows because there is a lot of ui precedent
that these are important. they indicate to a user that it is a BUTTON

to be

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
CLICKED, as opposed to just some flat rectangle with some text in it. people
have no idea that they can CLICK that. to them it is a passive label. i stopped
listening to fashion followers long ago, because all you end up with

is a

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
continual chasing of the latest trend. reality is that everyone has different
tastes and THAT is what themes are for. we don't really have the

manpower

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
to do
more than a single well polished theme. we just don't have artists.

even

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
the
default theme is lacking. it lacks many icons it should have. the icons should
be consistent and match the theme, but there just hasn't been time to

work

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
on
it all. likely there never will be.
yes - the icons in the default theme need work. now for the bodhi

theme.

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
take a
look at the icons in your screenshot, the "i" icon in the about windows has a
pure green that kind of clashes with the green int he background. some icons -
like the about theme one, come from tango. the epad icon looks starkly
different to the pkgkit shield icon to its right. icons should follow

the

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
same
style, same look, same lighting and choose colors that don't clash or

look

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
garish. again - this is something an artist understands it's the words

to

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
be
given to those that do the artwork.
if you follow that reddit thread talking of webupd8 all the negative comments
are pretty much a "you're not being fashionable!". but then again... several of
the comments are pointing out bodhi mods - like the big red shiny power button
that is basically an early-osx style glassy shine slapped into a ui

that

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
is grey
and matte. it just doesn't fit. draw an icon that fits - either an

inset

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
grey
power icon or maybe a blue glowing one, but something that matches the scheme.
the button doesn't match at all. it's out of place. that red power

button

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
may
be a module you can remove.. but people JUDGE on screenshots - as

above.

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
you
want screenshots to look clean and consistent REGARDLESS of style. yes

e's

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
default style has bevels and 3d - but given the comments people

actually

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
don't
mind that a lot of the time. it's when you go overboard with shiny

glassy

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
effects that then don't fit, that people start to mock. and they are right. it
looks amateurish. if you have a style, define it and stick to it - everywhere.
again other complaints about "the horrible gradient in the fm

sidebar"...

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
that
is a mode from bodhi changing the default. yes - the default could do

with

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
more
polish - especially icons, BUT the ad-hoc mods that just don't fit in stand out
and look bad. a lot of comments are personal, color preference "lighter
please" (and you get the revers if you are light). this is something i wanted
to do eventually - generate a mid grey and light version of the default theme
from the original, BUT i just haven't gotten to it and i'd want to

polish

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
it up
more. i only made colorclasses work again recently. simotek has been working on
his scripts and tools to generate new colors versions of the default

and

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
that
is good. they at least look consistent and polished.
also there needs to be control. edje files are insanely complex. they

can

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
do a
hell of a lot. a lot of the design is in restricting what you do.

keeping

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
to a
simple and consistent subset of colors, shapes and concepts. bad themes just
turn on everything including the kitchen sink.
also another note. all the HAPPY users go away and be happy. they stay quiet.
you hear the noise of the UNHAPPY ones, so it always looks out of proportion.
there is also always a large set of noisy trolls that love to beat

down on

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
anything but their favorite chosen thing.
summary - don't do half-arsed themes. do a full completely done and consistent
theme that pays attention to color phsychology. don't mix and match

styles

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
and
components. so dot your i's, cross your t's. make your screenshots LOOK GOOD.
people will judge you on them. most will. choose conservative colors in general
and make sure everything is polished and consistent. that is what lends quality
to something.
yes the config dialogs are a mess. it's 10 years of config option

addition

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
one
after another. it needs a re-do, but the time just hasn't been there as other
things are more important to where the resources come from (EFL itself, wayland
etc.). if i had the time, i'd have redone all the icons by now and

have a

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
decent icon theme that ships with e that has 100's of the icons needed

to

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
cover
most apps. but i don't. :(
does this help?

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Is basically the feedback I get from non-E users most times.

Thoughts on

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel

Post by Jeff Hoogland
this?
Recent example ->

http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/27qt7k/bodhi_linux_300_rc1_released_ubuntu_1404_base/

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel

Post by Jeff Hoogland
--
~Jeff Hoogland <http://jeffhoogland.com/>
Thoughts on Technology <http://jeffhoogland.blogspot.com/>, Tech

Blog

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Bodhi Linux <http://bodhilinux.com/>, Enlightenment for your Desktop

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel

Post by Jeff Hoogland
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk

Solutions

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

--
------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am"

--------------

Post by Jeff Hoogland
--
~Jeff Hoogland <http://jeffhoogland.com/>
Thoughts on Technology <http://jeffhoogland.blogspot.com/>, Tech Blog
Bodhi Linux <http://bodhilinux.com/>, Enlightenment for your Desktop

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by Jeff Hoogland
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

--
------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

[Alberto Verdoja]

Hi to all,
I have created the E19 Theme Radiance and I hope to give my point of view
at this useful discussion and let you explain the goal of my theme.
I'm sorry if the mail is long, please read all or jump on the end of the
mail to a short version of my point of view :D

Thanks for all your feedback, there's some useful tips about icons and
battery gadget (pretty sure battery gadget uses the same codes of default E
theme cause I don't have a laptop and I can't test it) and I'll look at
that when I have more free time. This thread is much more useful than the
flame topic on reddit :)

Here's the goals of what is my Radiance theme.
FIRST GOAL: UNIFIED LOOK
When I use a DE I need that the theme is unique for all applications. So I
have to create a theme that matches well with a GTK themes.
On the past I've ported for GTK2 some E17 themes (blingbling, Gant and
A-lots of A-Agust's A-themes), but with the release of GTK3 I can't create
a GTK2 and a GTK3 theme both.
So while I don't want to port E17 Theme to GTK3, I've decided to create E17
themes that cames from the design of GTK3.
GTK3, like E, every update can screw a little (or a big) part of the theme,
so keep it mainteined it's a big job, if you noticed themes available for
GTK3 soon or later go old. There's a couple of theme that are keep updated:
Adwaita (you don't say?) and "Light Themes" Radiance and Ambiance theme,
from Ubuntu.
I preferer between Radiance, Ambiance and Adwaita the first one, so I've
create a theme that matches well with Radiance.
Yes. E with Radiance looks like Ubuntu. I don't like Ubuntu or Unity, but I
want that E applications look like GTK's ones and there's a few GTK themes
on the place that are updated. So I choose the theme that I like more:
Radiance.

SECOND GOAL: ...A LOT OF COLORS
As on "Black and White and a Lot of Colors
<http://avduma.deviantart.com/art/Black-and-White-and-a-lot-of-colors-351791124>"
, I love the possibility E gives to change colors with Settings -> Looks ->
Colors.
I've suggested the creator of relighted theme to use this features and it
is born Relightable and I've used the same idea also on Radiance.
I've invented nothing new 'cause color classes is a cool options from EDJE.
SO
On Radiance Theme you can edit ALL the colors.
Don't you like Radiance Color Scheme? Change it!
So if you feel purply one day, change your color, if you feel bluey or
reddy or yellowy, you can change color scheme.
Easly, with a GUI.
Unfortunately E-devs have removed "Focus" options from Color Settings GUI
(please readd the options! :D ) and the Ubuntu Orange of selected items is
changeable only decompiling the theme
BUT
I've created a file named radconf that with #define options allows to
change color scheme like in old GNOME 2 way: background, foreground,
selected background, selected foreground, etc etc.
If you want to change more deeply, you can see on color_class.edc and
change the theme.
No digging on edc files and search the correct part because it's all binded
to a color class.
So if you want to use another GTK theme (I've used ZonColor Green for a
while with my Radiance Theme and it is looking good:
Loading Image... ) you have three different way to best fit
your tasties.

For Bodhi Linux I've started to edit the color scheme of my theme and GTK
theme to something that takes orange and green color directly from the
color of the Bodhi Linux CSS site. All the question about colors
psychology, fashion, "de gustibus" I remand directly to Jeff and/or Joris
about the scheme, I've followed their scheme.



If you don't like some gadgets or modules or pixmap I've choose, I happily
change to best fit user interfaces guidelines or tasties.
If you don't like rounded borders, the "murrina" shines that Radiance and
Ubuntu themes have, I understand your thoughts.
If you want square and flat just because now it's "modern" or "fancy
fashion" it is your choiche, I respect but I don't have plan to create
something like this becuase I like murrina shine, the good old GTK 2 and
the cube, flames and other RAM warping effects of compiz :) (and "you all
can keep the change"

-sorry for
the flame :) - )
BUT
If you don't like Color Scheme, please consider to change the colors. I've
spend a lot of time using white pixmap to allows this feature and avoid
tons of themes with same pixmap but different colors (unfortunately E17 had
a lots of this themes and they all look amateurish / not complete / crappy).
At the moment I'm not on E, so I can't send you a shot of my theme gray and
blue, like Elementary OS, but, for ezample, IT IS POSSIBLE.

So please change the theme to best fit your color. It's all explained on my
deviantArt page here
<http://avduma.deviantart.com/#/art/E19-Radiance-Theme-with-a-Lot-of-Colors-451995096?hf=1>
or on e17-stuff
<http://e17-stuff.org/content/show.php/Radiance...+with+a+Lot+of+Colors?content=165101>
and spread the screenshot with the theme with different colors to show that
if you don't like brown, red, oange you can use gray, blue, purple!

For rasterman please re-add "Focus" color class on Settings -> Look ->
Colors and bind elementary color classes to the Colors Settings dialog.
I know you have things more important so I don't open phab ticket for this,
but it should be very cool if we could have this features.

Thanks to all,

___
Alberto "Duma" Verdoja

On Wed, 11 Jun 2014 09:22:00 +0200 Martin Koelewijn <

Post by Martin Koelewijn
@raster: I'm curious about the gtkrc you made. The attachment, as usual,
failed to arrive at the mailing list. Could you paste it somewhere and
share the link? Thanks.

https://phab.enlightenment.org/file/info/PHID-FILE-dpri745rnyuhghdlljdn/

Post by Martin Koelewijn
M

On Wed, 11 Jun 2014 00:22:08 -0500 Jeff Hoogland

Post by Jeff Hoogland
They aren't just talking about the Bodhi theme. They are talking

about E

Post by Martin Koelewijn

in

Post by Jeff Hoogland
general.

i read the thread - the reddit one, and they are. when they are
"Looks like a baby took a shit on your screen as you were taking screenshots.
Suggestion, use less baby shit green. I hope you find this new

information

Post by Martin Koelewijn

helpful."
and they continue down that thread. green in the bodhi theme

screenshot.

Post by Martin Koelewijn

the
original comment from bitchessuck was ambiguous but during that thead

he

Post by Martin Koelewijn

clearly seems to be talking of the bodhi theme. more comments on the

bodhi

Post by Martin Koelewijn

"Some things are subjective, but others aren't. Consider color schemes

or

Post by Martin Koelewijn

consistency."
"Yeah, but only slightly I should also mention the fonts are too large, and the
icons are awful."
"The icon size isn't the problem, although the size of one of the

icons is

Post by Martin Koelewijn

off.
The icons have wildly different style, the power icon is just ugly and badly
drawn, and the meaning of those icons is hard to guess. Alignment is

also

Post by Martin Koelewijn

a bit
off."
in fact the majority of comments on the reddit thread are clearly

about the

Post by Martin Koelewijn

bodhi theme thread, with others ambiguous.
the webupd8 one i quoted below - the things people specifically

criticize

Post by Martin Koelewijn

OTHER
than "it's dark and i don't like dark" (which was basically one guy)

and

Post by Martin Koelewijn

"it
doesn't look flat and modern" were about poor mismatching in the ui -

the

Post by Martin Koelewijn

red
glossy class shiny power button for example. the awful gradients in efm thanks
to the different theme.
i took the time out to read the entire reddit thread and webupd8

thread.

Post by Martin Koelewijn

there
1. people don't like the half-arsed themes with inconsistency.
2. there are a bunch of people who think it must be modern and flat or then it
sucks
3. there are some people who don't like dark stuff
there are ALSO people who indicate they LIKE the non-flat look also in those
threads. there are people who indicate they LIKE the dark. some like

these,

Post by Martin Koelewijn

some don't, but i saw no one champion inconsistent looks.

Post by Jeff Hoogland
That web update thread goes back to a point where we don't have a

"default"

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Bodhi theme - we have a selection of themes at startup which includes

your

Post by Jeff Hoogland
dark default theme.
What doesn't look consistent and/or polished about our current theme

for

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland
3.0.0? Just like the default - it can come in many different colors,

so

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland
saying "green is bad" is a cop out. As many have mentioned it looks

fairly

Post by Jeff Hoogland
similar to unity - which many of these same people complaining about

how

Post by Martin Koelewijn

E

Post by Jeff Hoogland
looks/functions are happy with.

didn't i repeat it often enough below?
PEOPLE JUDGE YOU ON YOUR SCREENSHOTS.
they don't see the other colors - they see the one image on that blog

post

Post by Martin Koelewijn

and
then make their decision. it's not a copy out. you asked what all that response
is about - it is about the screenshot on your blog. webup8 is about the set of
screenshots in the article above.

Post by Jeff Hoogland
On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 10:20 PM, Carsten Haitzler <

Post by David Seikel
On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 09:38:20 -0500 Jeff Hoogland
i'm going to respond here and include some stuff put into the

thread so

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
far.
before i do that note that several efl devs you'd want to talk to

are

Post by Martin Koelewijn

not

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
subscribed to this mailing list, so expect you are seeing a subset

of

Post by Martin Koelewijn

the

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
audience.
now covering some of the reddit comments. they are talking of the

bodhi

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
linux
theme, and at a personal level, i agree. i don't like it. why?

color

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
selection
for starters. orange and green. not a great choice. the default

theme

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
isn't an
accident. i actually did research. i didn't want to be light as

frankly

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
it's
glaring on the eyes and looking at a large set of our userbase,

they

Post by Martin Koelewijn

like

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
dark
themes. also it's "different" and thus makes e stand out. if e

blends

Post by Martin Koelewijn

in

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
and is
just like everything else, then from a marketing point of view, we

have

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
much
less to offer.
now the theme is dark (i chose dark greys so i could have some

contrast and

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
difference between elements than pure black), with blue hilights.

blue

Post by Martin Koelewijn

is

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
NOT

http://isp.netscape.com/whatsnew/package.jsp?name=fte/popularcolor/popularcolor

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
http://www.infoplease.com/spot/colors1.html

http://www.hgtv.com/color/the-5-most-popular-colors-from-hgtvcom/pictures/index.html

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
http://www.thetoptens.com/top-ten-favorite-colors/

http://forum.softpedia.com/topic/577468-culoarea-masinii-preferinte-in-diverse-zone-ale-globului/

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
http://autos.aol.com/article/color-study-2009/
http://www.mojomotors.com/blog/the-most-popular-car-colors/

http://www.catsynth.com/2007/01/fun-with-stats-most-popular-car-colors/

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
(i can continue finding references).
notice several things. black (or dark grey) and blue feature high

in

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
preferences
of people around the world. see the psychology one. black gives

power

Post by Martin Koelewijn

and

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
authority, it also implies professionalism. blue implies peace and
tranquility
and can improve productivity.
these choices are far from being an accident. also dark colors use

less

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
power
on oled panels. :)
now for being different. attracting attention. standing out. if we

looked

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
the
same, we'd blend in and then you find it hard to get people to

switch.

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
"you're
just the same!". they look at screenshots. they dont spend the

time to

Post by Martin Koelewijn

use

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
and
get to know e. they make their decisions on pretty pictures.
so the bodhi color choice i would say goes contrary to what is

popular

Post by Martin Koelewijn

and

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
is
"acceptable" for people. sure - the green stands out, but people

don't

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
really
like green for their ui. looking at the theme, it looks almost

EXACTLY

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
like a
green version of ubuntu. i look at it and go "ewww. uglier

ubuntu.". it

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
has no
character. it has no soul. it has no identity of its own. it's a

copy

Post by Martin Koelewijn

of an

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
existing ui just with worse colors and less polish. you want

specific

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
feedback,
and this is it. at least from me. read up on color psychology and
popularity
and then make a good choice. :)
the next problem is the ubuntu copy look. it just looks bad. it may

blend

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
well
with ubuntus mods to gtk so it fits, but then it provides no

individual

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
character of its own. e then is just a poor copy of unity in

ubuntu.

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
for e's default theme i chose the colors, then another concept -
squareness. i
made my gtk match - see attached gtkrc. at least color-wise it

doesn't

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
stand out
glaringly like a sore thumb, but there is a limit to how well they

can

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
match.
back to the default. yes - i chose bevels with shadows and some

gradients.

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
yes
it's "old fashioned". the bitchers you see want something that

looks

Post by Martin Koelewijn

just

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
like
the flat design in the new osx or what google puts on their pages.

they

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
want it
because they love following fashion. in a few years fashion will

change

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
again.
i, for one, am not the kind of person who reads the fashion mags

and

Post by Martin Koelewijn

buys

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
a new
pare of pants, shoes etc. just because it's "the in thing this

season", but

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
reality is a lot of people are just that and they will rain insults

down

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
on you
unless what you provide matches THEIR exact perceived idea of what

is

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
"cool"
today. i chose the bevels and shadows because there is a lot of ui
precedent
that these are important. they indicate to a user that it is a

BUTTON

Post by Martin Koelewijn

to be

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
CLICKED, as opposed to just some flat rectangle with some text in

it.

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
people
have no idea that they can CLICK that. to them it is a passive

label. i

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
stopped
listening to fashion followers long ago, because all you end up

with

Post by Martin Koelewijn

is a

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
continual chasing of the latest trend. reality is that everyone has
different
tastes and THAT is what themes are for. we don't really have the

manpower

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
to do
more than a single well polished theme. we just don't have artists.

even

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
the
default theme is lacking. it lacks many icons it should have. the

icons

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
should
be consistent and match the theme, but there just hasn't been time

to

Post by Martin Koelewijn

work

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
on
it all. likely there never will be.
yes - the icons in the default theme need work. now for the bodhi

theme.

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
take a
look at the icons in your screenshot, the "i" icon in the about

windows

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
has a
pure green that kind of clashes with the green int he background.

some

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
icons -
like the about theme one, come from tango. the epad icon looks

starkly

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
different to the pkgkit shield icon to its right. icons should

follow

Post by Martin Koelewijn

the

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
same
style, same look, same lighting and choose colors that don't clash

or

Post by Martin Koelewijn

look

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
garish. again - this is something an artist understands it's the

words

Post by Martin Koelewijn

to

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
be
given to those that do the artwork.
if you follow that reddit thread talking of webupd8 all the

negative

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
comments
are pretty much a "you're not being fashionable!". but then

again...

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
several of
the comments are pointing out bodhi mods - like the big red shiny

power

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
button
that is basically an early-osx style glassy shine slapped into a ui

that

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
is grey
and matte. it just doesn't fit. draw an icon that fits - either an

inset

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
grey
power icon or maybe a blue glowing one, but something that matches

the

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
scheme.
the button doesn't match at all. it's out of place. that red power

button

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
may
be a module you can remove.. but people JUDGE on screenshots - as

above.

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
you
want screenshots to look clean and consistent REGARDLESS of style.

yes

Post by Martin Koelewijn

e's

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
default style has bevels and 3d - but given the comments people

actually

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
don't
mind that a lot of the time. it's when you go overboard with shiny

glassy

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
effects that then don't fit, that people start to mock. and they

are

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
right. it
looks amateurish. if you have a style, define it and stick to it -
everywhere.
again other complaints about "the horrible gradient in the fm

sidebar"...

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
that
is a mode from bodhi changing the default. yes - the default could

do

Post by Martin Koelewijn

with

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
more
polish - especially icons, BUT the ad-hoc mods that just don't fit

in

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
stand out
and look bad. a lot of comments are personal, color preference

"lighter

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
please" (and you get the revers if you are light). this is

something i

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
wanted
to do eventually - generate a mid grey and light version of the

default

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
theme
from the original, BUT i just haven't gotten to it and i'd want to

polish

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
it up
more. i only made colorclasses work again recently. simotek has

been

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
working on
his scripts and tools to generate new colors versions of the

default

Post by Martin Koelewijn

and

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
that
is good. they at least look consistent and polished.
also there needs to be control. edje files are insanely complex.

they

Post by Martin Koelewijn

can

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
do a
hell of a lot. a lot of the design is in restricting what you do.

keeping

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
to a
simple and consistent subset of colors, shapes and concepts. bad

themes

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
just
turn on everything including the kitchen sink.
also another note. all the HAPPY users go away and be happy. they

stay

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
quiet.
you hear the noise of the UNHAPPY ones, so it always looks out of
proportion.
there is also always a large set of noisy trolls that love to beat

down on

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
anything but their favorite chosen thing.
summary - don't do half-arsed themes. do a full completely done and
consistent
theme that pays attention to color phsychology. don't mix and match

styles

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
and
components. so dot your i's, cross your t's. make your screenshots

LOOK

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
GOOD.
people will judge you on them. most will. choose conservative

colors in

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
general
and make sure everything is polished and consistent. that is what

lends

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
quality
to something.
yes the config dialogs are a mess. it's 10 years of config option

addition

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
one
after another. it needs a re-do, but the time just hasn't been

there as

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
other
things are more important to where the resources come from (EFL

itself,

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
wayland
etc.). if i had the time, i'd have redone all the icons by now and

have a

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
decent icon theme that ships with e that has 100's of the icons

needed

Post by Martin Koelewijn

to

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
cover
most apps. but i don't. :(
does this help?

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Is basically the feedback I get from non-E users most times.

Thoughts on

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel

Post by Jeff Hoogland
this?
Recent example ->

http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/27qt7k/bodhi_linux_300_rc1_released_ubuntu_1404_base/

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel

Post by Jeff Hoogland
--
~Jeff Hoogland <http://jeffhoogland.com/>
Thoughts on Technology <http://jeffhoogland.blogspot.com/>, Tech

Blog

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Bodhi Linux <http://bodhilinux.com/>, Enlightenment for your

Desktop
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel

Post by Jeff Hoogland
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk

Solutions

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data

Exploration

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel

Post by Jeff Hoogland
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

--
------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am"

--------------

Post by Jeff Hoogland
--
~Jeff Hoogland <http://jeffhoogland.com/>
Thoughts on Technology <http://jeffhoogland.blogspot.com/>, Tech

Blog

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Bodhi Linux <http://bodhilinux.com/>, Enlightenment for your Desktop

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk

Solutions

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

--
------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am"

--------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by Martin Koelewijn

HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk

Solutions

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by Martin Koelewijn
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

--
------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

[Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)]

Post by Alberto Verdoja
Hi to all,
I have created the E19 Theme Radiance and I hope to give my point of view
at this useful discussion and let you explain the goal of my theme.
I'm sorry if the mail is long, please read all or jump on the end of the
mail to a short version of my point of view :D
Thanks for all your feedback, there's some useful tips about icons and
battery gadget (pretty sure battery gadget uses the same codes of default E
theme cause I don't have a laptop and I can't test it) and I'll look at
that when I have more free time. This thread is much more useful than the
flame topic on reddit :)
Here's the goals of what is my Radiance theme.
FIRST GOAL: UNIFIED LOOK
When I use a DE I need that the theme is unique for all applications. So I
have to create a theme that matches well with a GTK themes.
On the past I've ported for GTK2 some E17 themes (blingbling, Gant and
A-lots of A-Agust's A-themes), but with the release of GTK3 I can't create
a GTK2 and a GTK3 theme both.
So while I don't want to port E17 Theme to GTK3, I've decided to create E17
themes that cames from the design of GTK3.
GTK3, like E, every update can screw a little (or a big) part of the theme,
so keep it mainteined it's a big job, if you noticed themes available for
Adwaita (you don't say?) and "Light Themes" Radiance and Ambiance theme,
from Ubuntu.
I preferer between Radiance, Ambiance and Adwaita the first one, so I've
create a theme that matches well with Radiance.
Yes. E with Radiance looks like Ubuntu. I don't like Ubuntu or Unity, but I
want that E applications look like GTK's ones and there's a few GTK themes
Radiance.
SECOND GOAL: ...A LOT OF COLORS
As on "Black and White and a Lot of Colors
<http://avduma.deviantart.com/art/Black-and-White-and-a-lot-of-colors-351791124>"
, I love the possibility E gives to change colors with Settings -> Looks ->
Colors.
I've suggested the creator of relighted theme to use this features and it
is born Relightable and I've used the same idea also on Radiance.
I've invented nothing new 'cause color classes is a cool options from EDJE.
SO
On Radiance Theme you can edit ALL the colors.
Don't you like Radiance Color Scheme? Change it!
So if you feel purply one day, change your color, if you feel bluey or
reddy or yellowy, you can change color scheme.
Easly, with a GUI.
Unfortunately E-devs have removed "Focus" options from Color Settings GUI
(please readd the options! :D ) and the Ubuntu Orange of selected items is
changeable only decompiling the theme
BUT
I've created a file named radconf that with #define options allows to
change color scheme like in old GNOME 2 way: background, foreground,
selected background, selected foreground, etc etc.
If you want to change more deeply, you can see on color_class.edc and
change the theme.
No digging on edc files and search the correct part because it's all binded
to a color class.
So if you want to use another GTK theme (I've used ZonColor Green for a
http://imgur.com/DZdz041.png ) you have three different way to best fit
your tasties.
For Bodhi Linux I've started to edit the color scheme of my theme and GTK
theme to something that takes orange and green color directly from the
color of the Bodhi Linux CSS site. All the question about colors
psychology, fashion, "de gustibus" I remand directly to Jeff and/or Joris
about the scheme, I've followed their scheme.
If you don't like some gadgets or modules or pixmap I've choose, I happily
change to best fit user interfaces guidelines or tasties.
If you don't like rounded borders, the "murrina" shines that Radiance and
Ubuntu themes have, I understand your thoughts.
If you want square and flat just because now it's "modern" or "fancy
fashion" it is your choiche, I respect but I don't have plan to create
something like this becuase I like murrina shine, the good old GTK 2 and
the cube, flames and other RAM warping effects of compiz :) (and "you all
can keep the change" http://youtu.be/cDvBmWOf8m0 -sorry for
the flame :) - )
BUT
If you don't like Color Scheme, please consider to change the colors. I've
spend a lot of time using white pixmap to allows this feature and avoid
tons of themes with same pixmap but different colors (unfortunately E17 had
a lots of this themes and they all look amateurish / not complete / crappy).
At the moment I'm not on E, so I can't send you a shot of my theme gray and
blue, like Elementary OS, but, for ezample, IT IS POSSIBLE.
So please change the theme to best fit your color. It's all explained on my
deviantArt page here
<http://avduma.deviantart.com/#/art/E19-Radiance-Theme-with-a-Lot-of-Colors-451995096?hf=1>
or on e17-stuff
<http://e17-stuff.org/content/show.php/Radiance...+with+a+Lot+of+Colors?content=165101>
and spread the screenshot with the theme with different colors to show that
if you don't like brown, red, oange you can use gray, blue, purple!
For rasterman please re-add "Focus" color class on Settings -> Look ->
Colors and bind elementary color classes to the Colors Settings dialog.

focus? it's there... at least for the compositor:

Loading Image...

what focus are you talking about?

Post by Alberto Verdoja
I know you have things more important so I don't open phab ticket for this,
but it should be very cool if we could have this features.
Thanks to all,
___
Alberto "Duma" Verdoja

On Wed, 11 Jun 2014 09:22:00 +0200 Martin Koelewijn <

Post by Martin Koelewijn
@raster: I'm curious about the gtkrc you made. The attachment, as usual,
failed to arrive at the mailing list. Could you paste it somewhere and
share the link? Thanks.

https://phab.enlightenment.org/file/info/PHID-FILE-dpri745rnyuhghdlljdn/

Post by Martin Koelewijn
M

On Wed, 11 Jun 2014 00:22:08 -0500 Jeff Hoogland

Post by Jeff Hoogland
They aren't just talking about the Bodhi theme. They are talking

about E

Post by Martin Koelewijn

in

Post by Jeff Hoogland
general.

i read the thread - the reddit one, and they are. when they are
"Looks like a baby took a shit on your screen as you were taking screenshots.
Suggestion, use less baby shit green. I hope you find this new

information

Post by Martin Koelewijn

helpful."
and they continue down that thread. green in the bodhi theme

screenshot.

Post by Martin Koelewijn

the
original comment from bitchessuck was ambiguous but during that thead

he

Post by Martin Koelewijn

clearly seems to be talking of the bodhi theme. more comments on the

bodhi

Post by Martin Koelewijn

"Some things are subjective, but others aren't. Consider color schemes

or

Post by Martin Koelewijn

consistency."
"Yeah, but only slightly I should also mention the fonts are too large, and the
icons are awful."
"The icon size isn't the problem, although the size of one of the

icons is

Post by Martin Koelewijn

off.
The icons have wildly different style, the power icon is just ugly and badly
drawn, and the meaning of those icons is hard to guess. Alignment is

also

Post by Martin Koelewijn

a bit
off."
in fact the majority of comments on the reddit thread are clearly

about the

Post by Martin Koelewijn

bodhi theme thread, with others ambiguous.
the webupd8 one i quoted below - the things people specifically

criticize

Post by Martin Koelewijn

OTHER
than "it's dark and i don't like dark" (which was basically one guy)

and

Post by Martin Koelewijn

"it
doesn't look flat and modern" were about poor mismatching in the ui -

the

Post by Martin Koelewijn

red
glossy class shiny power button for example. the awful gradients in efm thanks
to the different theme.
i took the time out to read the entire reddit thread and webupd8

thread.

Post by Martin Koelewijn

there
1. people don't like the half-arsed themes with inconsistency.
2. there are a bunch of people who think it must be modern and flat or then it
sucks
3. there are some people who don't like dark stuff
there are ALSO people who indicate they LIKE the non-flat look also in those
threads. there are people who indicate they LIKE the dark. some like

these,

Post by Martin Koelewijn

some don't, but i saw no one champion inconsistent looks.

Post by Jeff Hoogland
That web update thread goes back to a point where we don't have a

"default"

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Bodhi theme - we have a selection of themes at startup which includes

your

Post by Jeff Hoogland
dark default theme.
What doesn't look consistent and/or polished about our current theme

for

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland
3.0.0? Just like the default - it can come in many different colors,

so

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland
saying "green is bad" is a cop out. As many have mentioned it looks

fairly

Post by Jeff Hoogland
similar to unity - which many of these same people complaining about

how

Post by Martin Koelewijn

E

Post by Jeff Hoogland
looks/functions are happy with.

didn't i repeat it often enough below?
PEOPLE JUDGE YOU ON YOUR SCREENSHOTS.
they don't see the other colors - they see the one image on that blog

post

Post by Martin Koelewijn

and
then make their decision. it's not a copy out. you asked what all that response
is about - it is about the screenshot on your blog. webup8 is about the set of
screenshots in the article above.

Post by Jeff Hoogland
On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 10:20 PM, Carsten Haitzler <

Post by David Seikel
On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 09:38:20 -0500 Jeff Hoogland
i'm going to respond here and include some stuff put into the

thread so

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
far.
before i do that note that several efl devs you'd want to talk to

are

Post by Martin Koelewijn

not

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
subscribed to this mailing list, so expect you are seeing a subset

of

Post by Martin Koelewijn

the

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
audience.
now covering some of the reddit comments. they are talking of the

bodhi

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
linux
theme, and at a personal level, i agree. i don't like it. why?

color

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
selection
for starters. orange and green. not a great choice. the default

theme

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
isn't an
accident. i actually did research. i didn't want to be light as

frankly

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
it's
glaring on the eyes and looking at a large set of our userbase,

they

Post by Martin Koelewijn

like

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
dark
themes. also it's "different" and thus makes e stand out. if e

blends

Post by Martin Koelewijn

in

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
and is
just like everything else, then from a marketing point of view, we

have

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
much
less to offer.
now the theme is dark (i chose dark greys so i could have some

contrast and

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
difference between elements than pure black), with blue hilights.

blue

Post by Martin Koelewijn

is

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
NOT

http://isp.netscape.com/whatsnew/package.jsp?name=fte/popularcolor/popularcolor

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
http://www.infoplease.com/spot/colors1.html

http://www.hgtv.com/color/the-5-most-popular-colors-from-hgtvcom/pictures/index.html

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
http://www.thetoptens.com/top-ten-favorite-colors/

http://forum.softpedia.com/topic/577468-culoarea-masinii-preferinte-in-diverse-zone-ale-globului/

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
http://autos.aol.com/article/color-study-2009/
http://www.mojomotors.com/blog/the-most-popular-car-colors/

http://www.catsynth.com/2007/01/fun-with-stats-most-popular-car-colors/

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
(i can continue finding references).
notice several things. black (or dark grey) and blue feature high

in

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
preferences
of people around the world. see the psychology one. black gives

power

Post by Martin Koelewijn

and

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
authority, it also implies professionalism. blue implies peace and
tranquility
and can improve productivity.
these choices are far from being an accident. also dark colors use

less

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
power
on oled panels. :)
now for being different. attracting attention. standing out. if we

looked

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
the
same, we'd blend in and then you find it hard to get people to

switch.

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
"you're
just the same!". they look at screenshots. they dont spend the

time to

Post by Martin Koelewijn

use

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
and
get to know e. they make their decisions on pretty pictures.
so the bodhi color choice i would say goes contrary to what is

popular

Post by Martin Koelewijn

and

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
is
"acceptable" for people. sure - the green stands out, but people

don't

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
really
like green for their ui. looking at the theme, it looks almost

EXACTLY

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
like a
green version of ubuntu. i look at it and go "ewww. uglier

ubuntu.". it

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
has no
character. it has no soul. it has no identity of its own. it's a

copy

Post by Martin Koelewijn

of an

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
existing ui just with worse colors and less polish. you want

specific

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
feedback,
and this is it. at least from me. read up on color psychology and
popularity
and then make a good choice. :)
the next problem is the ubuntu copy look. it just looks bad. it may

blend

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
well
with ubuntus mods to gtk so it fits, but then it provides no

individual

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
character of its own. e then is just a poor copy of unity in

ubuntu.

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
for e's default theme i chose the colors, then another concept -
squareness. i
made my gtk match - see attached gtkrc. at least color-wise it

doesn't

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
stand out
glaringly like a sore thumb, but there is a limit to how well they

can

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
match.
back to the default. yes - i chose bevels with shadows and some

gradients.

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
yes
it's "old fashioned". the bitchers you see want something that

looks

Post by Martin Koelewijn

just

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
like
the flat design in the new osx or what google puts on their pages.

they

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
want it
because they love following fashion. in a few years fashion will

change

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
again.
i, for one, am not the kind of person who reads the fashion mags

and

Post by Martin Koelewijn

buys

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
a new
pare of pants, shoes etc. just because it's "the in thing this

season", but

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
reality is a lot of people are just that and they will rain insults

down

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
on you
unless what you provide matches THEIR exact perceived idea of what

is

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
"cool"
today. i chose the bevels and shadows because there is a lot of ui
precedent
that these are important. they indicate to a user that it is a

BUTTON

Post by Martin Koelewijn

to be

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
CLICKED, as opposed to just some flat rectangle with some text in

it.

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
people
have no idea that they can CLICK that. to them it is a passive

label. i

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
stopped
listening to fashion followers long ago, because all you end up

with

Post by Martin Koelewijn

is a

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
continual chasing of the latest trend. reality is that everyone has
different
tastes and THAT is what themes are for. we don't really have the

manpower

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
to do
more than a single well polished theme. we just don't have artists.

even

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
the
default theme is lacking. it lacks many icons it should have. the

icons

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
should
be consistent and match the theme, but there just hasn't been time

to

Post by Martin Koelewijn

work

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
on
it all. likely there never will be.
yes - the icons in the default theme need work. now for the bodhi

theme.

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
take a
look at the icons in your screenshot, the "i" icon in the about

windows

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
has a
pure green that kind of clashes with the green int he background.

some

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
icons -
like the about theme one, come from tango. the epad icon looks

starkly

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
different to the pkgkit shield icon to its right. icons should

follow

Post by Martin Koelewijn

the

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
same
style, same look, same lighting and choose colors that don't clash

or

Post by Martin Koelewijn

look

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
garish. again - this is something an artist understands it's the

words

Post by Martin Koelewijn

to

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
be
given to those that do the artwork.
if you follow that reddit thread talking of webupd8 all the

negative

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
comments
are pretty much a "you're not being fashionable!". but then

again...

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
several of
the comments are pointing out bodhi mods - like the big red shiny

power

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
button
that is basically an early-osx style glassy shine slapped into a ui

that

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
is grey
and matte. it just doesn't fit. draw an icon that fits - either an

inset

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
grey
power icon or maybe a blue glowing one, but something that matches

the

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
scheme.
the button doesn't match at all. it's out of place. that red power

button

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
may
be a module you can remove.. but people JUDGE on screenshots - as

above.

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
you
want screenshots to look clean and consistent REGARDLESS of style.

yes

Post by Martin Koelewijn

e's

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
default style has bevels and 3d - but given the comments people

actually

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
don't
mind that a lot of the time. it's when you go overboard with shiny

glassy

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
effects that then don't fit, that people start to mock. and they

are

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
right. it
looks amateurish. if you have a style, define it and stick to it -
everywhere.
again other complaints about "the horrible gradient in the fm

sidebar"...

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
that
is a mode from bodhi changing the default. yes - the default could

do

Post by Martin Koelewijn

with

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
more
polish - especially icons, BUT the ad-hoc mods that just don't fit

in

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
stand out
and look bad. a lot of comments are personal, color preference

"lighter

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
please" (and you get the revers if you are light). this is

something i

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
wanted
to do eventually - generate a mid grey and light version of the

default

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
theme
from the original, BUT i just haven't gotten to it and i'd want to

polish

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
it up
more. i only made colorclasses work again recently. simotek has

been

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
working on
his scripts and tools to generate new colors versions of the

default

Post by Martin Koelewijn

and

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
that
is good. they at least look consistent and polished.
also there needs to be control. edje files are insanely complex.

they

Post by Martin Koelewijn

can

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
do a
hell of a lot. a lot of the design is in restricting what you do.

keeping

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
to a
simple and consistent subset of colors, shapes and concepts. bad

themes

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
just
turn on everything including the kitchen sink.
also another note. all the HAPPY users go away and be happy. they

stay

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
quiet.
you hear the noise of the UNHAPPY ones, so it always looks out of
proportion.
there is also always a large set of noisy trolls that love to beat

down on

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
anything but their favorite chosen thing.
summary - don't do half-arsed themes. do a full completely done and
consistent
theme that pays attention to color phsychology. don't mix and match

styles

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
and
components. so dot your i's, cross your t's. make your screenshots

LOOK

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
GOOD.
people will judge you on them. most will. choose conservative

colors in

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
general
and make sure everything is polished and consistent. that is what

lends

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
quality
to something.
yes the config dialogs are a mess. it's 10 years of config option

addition

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
one
after another. it needs a re-do, but the time just hasn't been

there as

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
other
things are more important to where the resources come from (EFL

itself,

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
wayland
etc.). if i had the time, i'd have redone all the icons by now and

have a

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
decent icon theme that ships with e that has 100's of the icons

needed

Post by Martin Koelewijn

to

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
cover
most apps. but i don't. :(
does this help?

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Is basically the feedback I get from non-E users most times.

Thoughts on

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel

Post by Jeff Hoogland
this?
Recent example ->

http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/27qt7k/bodhi_linux_300_rc1_released_ubuntu_1404_base/

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel

Post by Jeff Hoogland
--
~Jeff Hoogland <http://jeffhoogland.com/>
Thoughts on Technology <http://jeffhoogland.blogspot.com/>, Tech

Blog

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Bodhi Linux <http://bodhilinux.com/>, Enlightenment for your

Desktop
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel

Post by Jeff Hoogland
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk

Solutions

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data

Exploration

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel

Post by Jeff Hoogland
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

--
------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am"

--------------

Post by Jeff Hoogland
--
~Jeff Hoogland <http://jeffhoogland.com/>
Thoughts on Technology <http://jeffhoogland.blogspot.com/>, Tech

Blog

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Bodhi Linux <http://bodhilinux.com/>, Enlightenment for your Desktop

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk

Solutions

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

--
------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am"

--------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by Martin Koelewijn

HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk

Solutions

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by Martin Koelewijn
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

--
------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

[Steven@e]

happy user here :)

Post by Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)

Post by Alberto Verdoja
Hi to all,
I have created the E19 Theme Radiance and I hope to give my point of view
at this useful discussion and let you explain the goal of my theme.
I'm sorry if the mail is long, please read all or jump on the end of the
mail to a short version of my point of view :D
Thanks for all your feedback, there's some useful tips about icons and
battery gadget (pretty sure battery gadget uses the same codes of default E
theme cause I don't have a laptop and I can't test it) and I'll look at
that when I have more free time. This thread is much more useful than the
flame topic on reddit :)
Here's the goals of what is my Radiance theme.
FIRST GOAL: UNIFIED LOOK
When I use a DE I need that the theme is unique for all applications. So I
have to create a theme that matches well with a GTK themes.
On the past I've ported for GTK2 some E17 themes (blingbling, Gant and
A-lots of A-Agust's A-themes), but with the release of GTK3 I can't create
a GTK2 and a GTK3 theme both.
So while I don't want to port E17 Theme to GTK3, I've decided to create E17
themes that cames from the design of GTK3.
GTK3, like E, every update can screw a little (or a big) part of the theme,
so keep it mainteined it's a big job, if you noticed themes available for
Adwaita (you don't say?) and "Light Themes" Radiance and Ambiance theme,
from Ubuntu.
I preferer between Radiance, Ambiance and Adwaita the first one, so I've
create a theme that matches well with Radiance.
Yes. E with Radiance looks like Ubuntu. I don't like Ubuntu or Unity, but I
want that E applications look like GTK's ones and there's a few GTK themes
Radiance.
SECOND GOAL: ...A LOT OF COLORS
As on "Black and White and a Lot of Colors
<http://avduma.deviantart.com/art/Black-and-White-and-a-lot-of-colors-351791124>"
, I love the possibility E gives to change colors with Settings -> Looks ->
Colors.
I've suggested the creator of relighted theme to use this features and it
is born Relightable and I've used the same idea also on Radiance.
I've invented nothing new 'cause color classes is a cool options from EDJE.
SO
On Radiance Theme you can edit ALL the colors.
Don't you like Radiance Color Scheme? Change it!
So if you feel purply one day, change your color, if you feel bluey or
reddy or yellowy, you can change color scheme.
Easly, with a GUI.
Unfortunately E-devs have removed "Focus" options from Color Settings GUI
(please readd the options! :D ) and the Ubuntu Orange of selected items is
changeable only decompiling the theme
BUT
I've created a file named radconf that with #define options allows to
change color scheme like in old GNOME 2 way: background, foreground,
selected background, selected foreground, etc etc.
If you want to change more deeply, you can see on color_class.edc and
change the theme.
No digging on edc files and search the correct part because it's all binded
to a color class.
So if you want to use another GTK theme (I've used ZonColor Green for a
http://imgur.com/DZdz041.png ) you have three different way to best fit
your tasties.
For Bodhi Linux I've started to edit the color scheme of my theme and GTK
theme to something that takes orange and green color directly from the
color of the Bodhi Linux CSS site. All the question about colors
psychology, fashion, "de gustibus" I remand directly to Jeff and/or Joris
about the scheme, I've followed their scheme.
If you don't like some gadgets or modules or pixmap I've choose, I happily
change to best fit user interfaces guidelines or tasties.
If you don't like rounded borders, the "murrina" shines that Radiance and
Ubuntu themes have, I understand your thoughts.
If you want square and flat just because now it's "modern" or "fancy
fashion" it is your choiche, I respect but I don't have plan to create
something like this becuase I like murrina shine, the good old GTK 2 and
the cube, flames and other RAM warping effects of compiz :) (and "you all
can keep the change" http://youtu.be/cDvBmWOf8m0 -sorry for
the flame :) - )
BUT
If you don't like Color Scheme, please consider to change the colors. I've
spend a lot of time using white pixmap to allows this feature and avoid
tons of themes with same pixmap but different colors (unfortunately E17 had
a lots of this themes and they all look amateurish / not complete / crappy).
At the moment I'm not on E, so I can't send you a shot of my theme gray and
blue, like Elementary OS, but, for ezample, IT IS POSSIBLE.
So please change the theme to best fit your color. It's all explained on my
deviantArt page here
<http://avduma.deviantart.com/#/art/E19-Radiance-Theme-with-a-Lot-of-Colors-451995096?hf=1>
or on e17-stuff
<http://e17-stuff.org/content/show.php/Radiance...+with+a+Lot+of+Colors?content=165101>
and spread the screenshot with the theme with different colors to show that
if you don't like brown, red, oange you can use gray, blue, purple!
For rasterman please re-add "Focus" color class on Settings -> Look ->
Colors and bind elementary color classes to the Colors Settings dialog.

http://www.enlightenment.org/ss/e-5398db9da2f525.82913551.png
what focus are you talking about?

Post by Alberto Verdoja
I know you have things more important so I don't open phab ticket for this,
but it should be very cool if we could have this features.
Thanks to all,
___
Alberto "Duma" Verdoja

On Wed, 11 Jun 2014 09:22:00 +0200 Martin Koelewijn <

Post by Martin Koelewijn
@raster: I'm curious about the gtkrc you made. The attachment, as usual,
failed to arrive at the mailing list. Could you paste it somewhere and
share the link? Thanks.

https://phab.enlightenment.org/file/info/PHID-FILE-dpri745rnyuhghdlljdn/

Post by Martin Koelewijn
M

On Wed, 11 Jun 2014 00:22:08 -0500 Jeff Hoogland

Post by Jeff Hoogland
They aren't just talking about the Bodhi theme. They are talking

about E

Post by Martin Koelewijn

in

Post by Jeff Hoogland
general.

i read the thread - the reddit one, and they are. when they are
"Looks like a baby took a shit on your screen as you were taking screenshots.
Suggestion, use less baby shit green. I hope you find this new

information

Post by Martin Koelewijn

helpful."
and they continue down that thread. green in the bodhi theme

screenshot.

Post by Martin Koelewijn

the
original comment from bitchessuck was ambiguous but during that thead

he

Post by Martin Koelewijn

clearly seems to be talking of the bodhi theme. more comments on the

bodhi

Post by Martin Koelewijn

"Some things are subjective, but others aren't. Consider color schemes

or

Post by Martin Koelewijn

consistency."
"Yeah, but only slightly I should also mention the fonts are too large,
and the
icons are awful."
"The icon size isn't the problem, although the size of one of the

icons is

Post by Martin Koelewijn

off.
The icons have wildly different style, the power icon is just ugly and badly
drawn, and the meaning of those icons is hard to guess. Alignment is

also

Post by Martin Koelewijn

a bit
off."
in fact the majority of comments on the reddit thread are clearly

about the

Post by Martin Koelewijn

bodhi theme thread, with others ambiguous.
the webupd8 one i quoted below - the things people specifically

criticize

Post by Martin Koelewijn

OTHER
than "it's dark and i don't like dark" (which was basically one guy)

and

Post by Martin Koelewijn

"it
doesn't look flat and modern" were about poor mismatching in the ui -

the

Post by Martin Koelewijn

red
glossy class shiny power button for example. the awful gradients in efm
thanks
to the different theme.
i took the time out to read the entire reddit thread and webupd8

thread.

Post by Martin Koelewijn

there
1. people don't like the half-arsed themes with inconsistency.
2. there are a bunch of people who think it must be modern and flat or
then it
sucks
3. there are some people who don't like dark stuff
there are ALSO people who indicate they LIKE the non-flat look also in those
threads. there are people who indicate they LIKE the dark. some like

these,

Post by Martin Koelewijn

some don't, but i saw no one champion inconsistent looks.

Post by Jeff Hoogland
That web update thread goes back to a point where we don't have a

"default"

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Bodhi theme - we have a selection of themes at startup which includes

your

Post by Jeff Hoogland
dark default theme.
What doesn't look consistent and/or polished about our current theme

for

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland
3.0.0? Just like the default - it can come in many different colors,

so

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland
saying "green is bad" is a cop out. As many have mentioned it looks

fairly

Post by Jeff Hoogland
similar to unity - which many of these same people complaining about

how

Post by Martin Koelewijn

E

Post by Jeff Hoogland
looks/functions are happy with.

didn't i repeat it often enough below?
PEOPLE JUDGE YOU ON YOUR SCREENSHOTS.
they don't see the other colors - they see the one image on that blog

post

Post by Martin Koelewijn

and
then make their decision. it's not a copy out. you asked what all that
response
is about - it is about the screenshot on your blog. webup8 is about the
set of
screenshots in the article above.

Post by Jeff Hoogland
On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 10:20 PM, Carsten Haitzler <

Post by David Seikel
On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 09:38:20 -0500 Jeff Hoogland
i'm going to respond here and include some stuff put into the

thread so

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
far.
before i do that note that several efl devs you'd want to talk to

are

Post by Martin Koelewijn

not

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
subscribed to this mailing list, so expect you are seeing a subset

of

Post by Martin Koelewijn

the

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
audience.
now covering some of the reddit comments. they are talking of the

bodhi

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
linux
theme, and at a personal level, i agree. i don't like it. why?

color

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
selection
for starters. orange and green. not a great choice. the default

theme

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
isn't an
accident. i actually did research. i didn't want to be light as

frankly

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
it's
glaring on the eyes and looking at a large set of our userbase,

they

Post by Martin Koelewijn

like

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
dark
themes. also it's "different" and thus makes e stand out. if e

blends

Post by Martin Koelewijn

in

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
and is
just like everything else, then from a marketing point of view, we

have

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
much
less to offer.
now the theme is dark (i chose dark greys so i could have some

contrast and

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
difference between elements than pure black), with blue hilights.

blue

Post by Martin Koelewijn

is

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
NOT

http://isp.netscape.com/whatsnew/package.jsp?name=fte/popularcolor/popularcolor

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
http://www.infoplease.com/spot/colors1.html

http://www.hgtv.com/color/the-5-most-popular-colors-from-hgtvcom/pictures/index.html

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
http://www.thetoptens.com/top-ten-favorite-colors/

http://forum.softpedia.com/topic/577468-culoarea-masinii-preferinte-in-diverse-zone-ale-globului/

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
http://autos.aol.com/article/color-study-2009/
http://www.mojomotors.com/blog/the-most-popular-car-colors/

http://www.catsynth.com/2007/01/fun-with-stats-most-popular-car-colors/

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
(i can continue finding references).
notice several things. black (or dark grey) and blue feature high

in

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
preferences
of people around the world. see the psychology one. black gives

power

Post by Martin Koelewijn

and

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
authority, it also implies professionalism. blue implies peace and
tranquility
and can improve productivity.
these choices are far from being an accident. also dark colors use

less

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
power
on oled panels. :)
now for being different. attracting attention. standing out. if we

looked

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
the
same, we'd blend in and then you find it hard to get people to

switch.

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
"you're
just the same!". they look at screenshots. they dont spend the

time to

Post by Martin Koelewijn

use

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
and
get to know e. they make their decisions on pretty pictures.
so the bodhi color choice i would say goes contrary to what is

popular

Post by Martin Koelewijn

and

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
is
"acceptable" for people. sure - the green stands out, but people

don't

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
really
like green for their ui. looking at the theme, it looks almost

EXACTLY

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
like a
green version of ubuntu. i look at it and go "ewww. uglier

ubuntu.". it

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
has no
character. it has no soul. it has no identity of its own. it's a

copy

Post by Martin Koelewijn

of an

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
existing ui just with worse colors and less polish. you want

specific

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
feedback,
and this is it. at least from me. read up on color psychology and
popularity
and then make a good choice. :)
the next problem is the ubuntu copy look. it just looks bad. it may

blend

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
well
with ubuntus mods to gtk so it fits, but then it provides no

individual

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
character of its own. e then is just a poor copy of unity in

ubuntu.

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
for e's default theme i chose the colors, then another concept -
squareness. i
made my gtk match - see attached gtkrc. at least color-wise it

doesn't

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
stand out
glaringly like a sore thumb, but there is a limit to how well they

can

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
match.
back to the default. yes - i chose bevels with shadows and some

gradients.

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
yes
it's "old fashioned". the bitchers you see want something that

looks

Post by Martin Koelewijn

just

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
like
the flat design in the new osx or what google puts on their pages.

they

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
want it
because they love following fashion. in a few years fashion will

change

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
again.
i, for one, am not the kind of person who reads the fashion mags

and

Post by Martin Koelewijn

buys

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
a new
pare of pants, shoes etc. just because it's "the in thing this

season", but

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
reality is a lot of people are just that and they will rain insults

down

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
on you
unless what you provide matches THEIR exact perceived idea of what

is

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
"cool"
today. i chose the bevels and shadows because there is a lot of ui
precedent
that these are important. they indicate to a user that it is a

BUTTON

Post by Martin Koelewijn

to be

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
CLICKED, as opposed to just some flat rectangle with some text in

it.

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
people
have no idea that they can CLICK that. to them it is a passive

label. i

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
stopped
listening to fashion followers long ago, because all you end up

with

Post by Martin Koelewijn

is a

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
continual chasing of the latest trend. reality is that everyone has
different
tastes and THAT is what themes are for. we don't really have the

manpower

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
to do
more than a single well polished theme. we just don't have artists.

even

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
the
default theme is lacking. it lacks many icons it should have. the

icons

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
should
be consistent and match the theme, but there just hasn't been time

to

Post by Martin Koelewijn

work

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
on
it all. likely there never will be.
yes - the icons in the default theme need work. now for the bodhi

theme.

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
take a
look at the icons in your screenshot, the "i" icon in the about

windows

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
has a
pure green that kind of clashes with the green int he background.

some

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
icons -
like the about theme one, come from tango. the epad icon looks

starkly

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
different to the pkgkit shield icon to its right. icons should

follow

Post by Martin Koelewijn

the

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
same
style, same look, same lighting and choose colors that don't clash

or

Post by Martin Koelewijn

look

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
garish. again - this is something an artist understands it's the

words

Post by Martin Koelewijn

to

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
be
given to those that do the artwork.
if you follow that reddit thread talking of webupd8 all the

negative

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
comments
are pretty much a "you're not being fashionable!". but then

again...

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
several of
the comments are pointing out bodhi mods - like the big red shiny

power

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
button
that is basically an early-osx style glassy shine slapped into a ui

that

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
is grey
and matte. it just doesn't fit. draw an icon that fits - either an

inset

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
grey
power icon or maybe a blue glowing one, but something that matches

the

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
scheme.
the button doesn't match at all. it's out of place. that red power

button

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
may
be a module you can remove.. but people JUDGE on screenshots - as

above.

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
you
want screenshots to look clean and consistent REGARDLESS of style.

yes

Post by Martin Koelewijn

e's

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
default style has bevels and 3d - but given the comments people

actually

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
don't
mind that a lot of the time. it's when you go overboard with shiny

glassy

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
effects that then don't fit, that people start to mock. and they

are

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
right. it
looks amateurish. if you have a style, define it and stick to it -
everywhere.
again other complaints about "the horrible gradient in the fm

sidebar"...

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
that
is a mode from bodhi changing the default. yes - the default could

do

Post by Martin Koelewijn

with

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
more
polish - especially icons, BUT the ad-hoc mods that just don't fit

in

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
stand out
and look bad. a lot of comments are personal, color preference

"lighter

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
please" (and you get the revers if you are light). this is

something i

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
wanted
to do eventually - generate a mid grey and light version of the

default

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
theme
from the original, BUT i just haven't gotten to it and i'd want to

polish

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
it up
more. i only made colorclasses work again recently. simotek has

been

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
working on
his scripts and tools to generate new colors versions of the

default

Post by Martin Koelewijn

and

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
that
is good. they at least look consistent and polished.
also there needs to be control. edje files are insanely complex.

they

Post by Martin Koelewijn

can

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
do a
hell of a lot. a lot of the design is in restricting what you do.

keeping

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
to a
simple and consistent subset of colors, shapes and concepts. bad

themes

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
just
turn on everything including the kitchen sink.
also another note. all the HAPPY users go away and be happy. they

stay

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
quiet.
you hear the noise of the UNHAPPY ones, so it always looks out of
proportion.
there is also always a large set of noisy trolls that love to beat

down on

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
anything but their favorite chosen thing.
summary - don't do half-arsed themes. do a full completely done and
consistent
theme that pays attention to color phsychology. don't mix and match

styles

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
and
components. so dot your i's, cross your t's. make your screenshots

LOOK

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
GOOD.
people will judge you on them. most will. choose conservative

colors in

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
general
and make sure everything is polished and consistent. that is what

lends

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
quality
to something.
yes the config dialogs are a mess. it's 10 years of config option

addition

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
one
after another. it needs a re-do, but the time just hasn't been

there as

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
other
things are more important to where the resources come from (EFL

itself,

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
wayland
etc.). if i had the time, i'd have redone all the icons by now and

have a

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
decent icon theme that ships with e that has 100's of the icons

needed

Post by Martin Koelewijn

to

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
cover
most apps. but i don't. :(
does this help?

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Is basically the feedback I get from non-E users most times.

Thoughts on

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel

Post by Jeff Hoogland
this?
Recent example ->

http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/27qt7k/bodhi_linux_300_rc1_released_ubuntu_1404_base/

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel

Post by Jeff Hoogland
--
~Jeff Hoogland <http://jeffhoogland.com/>
Thoughts on Technology <http://jeffhoogland.blogspot.com/>, Tech

Blog

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Bodhi Linux <http://bodhilinux.com/>, Enlightenment for your

Desktop
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel

Post by Jeff Hoogland
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk

Solutions

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data

Exploration

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel

Post by Jeff Hoogland
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

--
------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am"

--------------

Post by Jeff Hoogland
--
~Jeff Hoogland <http://jeffhoogland.com/>
Thoughts on Technology <http://jeffhoogland.blogspot.com/>, Tech

Blog

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Bodhi Linux <http://bodhilinux.com/>, Enlightenment for your Desktop

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk

Solutions

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

--
------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am"

--------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by Martin Koelewijn

HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk

Solutions

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by Martin Koelewijn
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

--
------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

--
------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

[Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)]

On Thu, 12 Jun 2014 02:19:06 +0200 Albi <***@gmail.com> said:

i don't remember it - what did it do?

There was a color class named "focus" that is also present on the color
dialog and on e19 is not present anymore.

On Wed, 11 Jun 2014 13:36:24 +0200 Alberto Verdoja

Post by Alberto Verdoja
Hi to all,
I have created the E19 Theme Radiance and I hope to give my point of

view

Post by Alberto Verdoja
at this useful discussion and let you explain the goal of my theme.
I'm sorry if the mail is long, please read all or jump on the end of

the

Post by Alberto Verdoja
mail to a short version of my point of view :D
Thanks for all your feedback, there's some useful tips about icons

and

Post by Alberto Verdoja
battery gadget (pretty sure battery gadget uses the same codes of

default E

Post by Alberto Verdoja
theme cause I don't have a laptop and I can't test it) and I'll look

at

Post by Alberto Verdoja
that when I have more free time. This thread is much more useful than

the

Post by Alberto Verdoja
flame topic on reddit :)
Here's the goals of what is my Radiance theme.
FIRST GOAL: UNIFIED LOOK
When I use a DE I need that the theme is unique for all applications.

So I

Post by Alberto Verdoja
have to create a theme that matches well with a GTK themes.
On the past I've ported for GTK2 some E17 themes (blingbling, Gant

and

Post by Alberto Verdoja
A-lots of A-Agust's A-themes), but with the release of GTK3 I can't

create

Post by Alberto Verdoja
a GTK2 and a GTK3 theme both.
So while I don't want to port E17 Theme to GTK3, I've decided to

create E17

Post by Alberto Verdoja
themes that cames from the design of GTK3.
GTK3, like E, every update can screw a little (or a big) part of the

theme,

Post by Alberto Verdoja
so keep it mainteined it's a big job, if you noticed themes available

for

Post by Alberto Verdoja
GTK3 soon or later go old. There's a couple of theme that are keep
Adwaita (you don't say?) and "Light Themes" Radiance and Ambiance

theme,

Post by Alberto Verdoja
from Ubuntu.
I preferer between Radiance, Ambiance and Adwaita the first one, so

I've

Post by Alberto Verdoja
create a theme that matches well with Radiance.
Yes. E with Radiance looks like Ubuntu. I don't like Ubuntu or Unity,

but I

Post by Alberto Verdoja
want that E applications look like GTK's ones and there's a few GTK

themes

Post by Alberto Verdoja
on the place that are updated. So I choose the theme that I like
Radiance.
SECOND GOAL: ...A LOT OF COLORS
As on "Black and White and a Lot of Colors

<http://avduma.deviantart.com/art/Black-and-White-and-a-lot-of-colors-351791124>"

Post by Alberto Verdoja
, I love the possibility E gives to change colors with Settings ->

Looks ->

Post by Alberto Verdoja
Colors.
I've suggested the creator of relighted theme to use this features

and it

Post by Alberto Verdoja
is born Relightable and I've used the same idea also on Radiance.
I've invented nothing new 'cause color classes is a cool options from

EDJE.

Post by Alberto Verdoja
SO
On Radiance Theme you can edit ALL the colors.
Don't you like Radiance Color Scheme? Change it!
So if you feel purply one day, change your color, if you feel bluey

or

Post by Alberto Verdoja
reddy or yellowy, you can change color scheme.
Easly, with a GUI.
Unfortunately E-devs have removed "Focus" options from Color Settings

GUI

Post by Alberto Verdoja
(please readd the options! :D ) and the Ubuntu Orange of selected

items is

Post by Alberto Verdoja
changeable only decompiling the theme
BUT
I've created a file named radconf that with #define options allows to
change color scheme like in old GNOME 2 way: background, foreground,
selected background, selected foreground, etc etc.
If you want to change more deeply, you can see on color_class.edc and
change the theme.
No digging on edc files and search the correct part because it's all

binded

Post by Alberto Verdoja
to a color class.
So if you want to use another GTK theme (I've used ZonColor Green for

a

Post by Alberto Verdoja
http://imgur.com/DZdz041.png ) you have three different way to best

fit

Post by Alberto Verdoja
your tasties.
For Bodhi Linux I've started to edit the color scheme of my theme and

GTK

Post by Alberto Verdoja
theme to something that takes orange and green color directly from

the

Post by Alberto Verdoja
color of the Bodhi Linux CSS site. All the question about colors
psychology, fashion, "de gustibus" I remand directly to Jeff and/or

Joris

Post by Alberto Verdoja
about the scheme, I've followed their scheme.
If you don't like some gadgets or modules or pixmap I've choose, I

happily

Post by Alberto Verdoja
change to best fit user interfaces guidelines or tasties.
If you don't like rounded borders, the "murrina" shines that Radiance

and

Post by Alberto Verdoja
Ubuntu themes have, I understand your thoughts.
If you want square and flat just because now it's "modern" or "fancy
fashion" it is your choiche, I respect but I don't have plan to

create

Post by Alberto Verdoja
something like this becuase I like murrina shine, the good old GTK 2

and

Post by Alberto Verdoja
the cube, flames and other RAM warping effects of compiz :) (and "you

all

Post by Alberto Verdoja
can keep the change" http://youtu.be/cDvBmWOf8m0

-sorry for

Post by Alberto Verdoja
the flame :) - )
BUT
If you don't like Color Scheme, please consider to change the colors.

I've

Post by Alberto Verdoja
spend a lot of time using white pixmap to allows this feature and

avoid

Post by Alberto Verdoja
tons of themes with same pixmap but different colors (unfortunately

E17 had

Post by Alberto Verdoja
a lots of this themes and they all look amateurish / not complete /

crappy).

Post by Alberto Verdoja
At the moment I'm not on E, so I can't send you a shot of my theme

gray and

Post by Alberto Verdoja
blue, like Elementary OS, but, for ezample, IT IS POSSIBLE.
So please change the theme to best fit your color. It's all explained

on my

Post by Alberto Verdoja
deviantArt page here

<http://avduma.deviantart.com/#/art/E19-Radiance-Theme-with-a-Lot-of-Colors-451995096?hf=1>

Post by Alberto Verdoja
or on e17-stuff

<http://e17-stuff.org/content/show.php/Radiance...+with+a+Lot+of+Colors?content=165101>

Post by Alberto Verdoja
and spread the screenshot with the theme with different colors to

show that

Post by Alberto Verdoja
if you don't like brown, red, oange you can use gray, blue, purple!
For rasterman please re-add "Focus" color class on Settings -> Look

->

Post by Alberto Verdoja
Colors and bind elementary color classes to the Colors Settings

dialog.
http://www.enlightenment.org/ss/e-5398db9da2f525.82913551.png
what focus are you talking about?

Post by Alberto Verdoja
I know you have things more important so I don't open phab ticket for

this,

Post by Alberto Verdoja
but it should be very cool if we could have this features.
Thanks to all,
___
Alberto "Duma" Verdoja

On Wed, 11 Jun 2014 09:22:00 +0200 Martin Koelewijn <

Post by Martin Koelewijn
@raster: I'm curious about the gtkrc you made. The attachment, as

usual,

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn
failed to arrive at the mailing list. Could you paste it

somewhere and

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn
share the link? Thanks.

https://phab.enlightenment.org/file/info/PHID-FILE-dpri745rnyuhghdlljdn/

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn
M
On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 7:38 AM, Carsten Haitzler

On Wed, 11 Jun 2014 00:22:08 -0500 Jeff Hoogland

Post by Jeff Hoogland
They aren't just talking about the Bodhi theme. They are

talking

Post by Alberto Verdoja

about E

Post by Martin Koelewijn

in

Post by Jeff Hoogland
general.

i read the thread - the reddit one, and they are. when they are
"Looks like a baby took a shit on your screen as you were

taking

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

screenshots.
Suggestion, use less baby shit green. I hope you find this new

information

Post by Martin Koelewijn

helpful."
and they continue down that thread. green in the bodhi theme

screenshot.

Post by Martin Koelewijn

the
original comment from bitchessuck was ambiguous but during that

thead

Post by Alberto Verdoja

he

Post by Martin Koelewijn

clearly seems to be talking of the bodhi theme. more comments

on the

Post by Alberto Verdoja

bodhi

Post by Martin Koelewijn

"Some things are subjective, but others aren't. Consider color

schemes

Post by Alberto Verdoja

or

Post by Martin Koelewijn

consistency."
"Yeah, but only slightly I should also mention the fonts are

too large,

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

and the
icons are awful."
"The icon size isn't the problem, although the size of one of

the

Post by Alberto Verdoja

icons is

Post by Martin Koelewijn

off.
The icons have wildly different style, the power icon is just

ugly and

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

badly
drawn, and the meaning of those icons is hard to guess.

Alignment is

Post by Alberto Verdoja

also

Post by Martin Koelewijn

a bit
off."
in fact the majority of comments on the reddit thread are

clearly

Post by Alberto Verdoja

about the

Post by Martin Koelewijn

bodhi theme thread, with others ambiguous.
the webupd8 one i quoted below - the things people specifically

criticize

Post by Martin Koelewijn

OTHER
than "it's dark and i don't like dark" (which was basically one

guy)

Post by Alberto Verdoja

and

Post by Martin Koelewijn

"it
doesn't look flat and modern" were about poor mismatching in

the ui -

Post by Alberto Verdoja

the

Post by Martin Koelewijn

red
glossy class shiny power button for example. the awful

gradients in efm

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

thanks
to the different theme.
i took the time out to read the entire reddit thread and

webupd8

Post by Alberto Verdoja

thread.

Post by Martin Koelewijn

there
1. people don't like the half-arsed themes with inconsistency.
2. there are a bunch of people who think it must be modern and

flat or

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

then it
sucks
3. there are some people who don't like dark stuff
there are ALSO people who indicate they LIKE the non-flat look

also in

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

those
threads. there are people who indicate they LIKE the dark. some

like

Post by Alberto Verdoja

these,

Post by Martin Koelewijn

some don't, but i saw no one champion inconsistent looks.

Post by Jeff Hoogland
That web update thread goes back to a point where we don't

have a

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

"default"

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Bodhi theme - we have a selection of themes at startup which

includes

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

your

Post by Jeff Hoogland
dark default theme.
What doesn't look consistent and/or polished about our

current theme

Post by Alberto Verdoja

for

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland
3.0.0? Just like the default - it can come in many different

colors,

Post by Alberto Verdoja

so

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland
saying "green is bad" is a cop out. As many have mentioned it

looks

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

fairly

Post by Jeff Hoogland
similar to unity - which many of these same people

complaining about

Post by Alberto Verdoja

how

Post by Martin Koelewijn

E

Post by Jeff Hoogland
looks/functions are happy with.

didn't i repeat it often enough below?
PEOPLE JUDGE YOU ON YOUR SCREENSHOTS.
they don't see the other colors - they see the one image on

that blog

Post by Alberto Verdoja

post

Post by Martin Koelewijn

and
then make their decision. it's not a copy out. you asked what

all that

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

response
is about - it is about the screenshot on your blog. webup8 is

about the

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

set of
screenshots in the article above.

Post by Jeff Hoogland
On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 10:20 PM, Carsten Haitzler <

Post by David Seikel
On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 09:38:20 -0500 Jeff Hoogland
i'm going to respond here and include some stuff put into

the

Post by Alberto Verdoja

thread so

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
far.
before i do that note that several efl devs you'd want to

talk to

Post by Alberto Verdoja

are

Post by Martin Koelewijn

not

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
subscribed to this mailing list, so expect you are seeing a

subset

Post by Alberto Verdoja

of

Post by Martin Koelewijn

the

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
audience.
now covering some of the reddit comments. they are talking

of the

Post by Alberto Verdoja

bodhi

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
linux
theme, and at a personal level, i agree. i don't like it.

why?

Post by Alberto Verdoja

color

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
selection
for starters. orange and green. not a great choice. the

default

Post by Alberto Verdoja

theme

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
isn't an
accident. i actually did research. i didn't want to be

light as

Post by Alberto Verdoja

frankly

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
it's
glaring on the eyes and looking at a large set of our

userbase,

Post by Alberto Verdoja

they

Post by Martin Koelewijn

like

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
dark
themes. also it's "different" and thus makes e stand out.

if e

Post by Alberto Verdoja

blends

Post by Martin Koelewijn

in

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
and is
just like everything else, then from a marketing point of

view, we

Post by Alberto Verdoja

have

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
much
less to offer.
now the theme is dark (i chose dark greys so i could have

some

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

contrast and

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
difference between elements than pure black), with blue

hilights.

Post by Alberto Verdoja

blue

Post by Martin Koelewijn

is

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
NOT

http://isp.netscape.com/whatsnew/package.jsp?name=fte/popularcolor/popularcolor

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
http://www.infoplease.com/spot/colors1.html

http://www.hgtv.com/color/the-5-most-popular-colors-from-hgtvcom/pictures/index.html

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
http://www.thetoptens.com/top-ten-favorite-colors/

http://forum.softpedia.com/topic/577468-culoarea-masinii-preferinte-in-diverse-zone-ale-globului/

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
http://autos.aol.com/article/color-study-2009/
http://www.mojomotors.com/blog/the-most-popular-car-colors/

http://www.catsynth.com/2007/01/fun-with-stats-most-popular-car-colors/

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
(i can continue finding references).
notice several things. black (or dark grey) and blue

feature high

Post by Alberto Verdoja

in

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
preferences
of people around the world. see the psychology one. black

gives

Post by Alberto Verdoja

power

Post by Martin Koelewijn

and

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
authority, it also implies professionalism. blue implies

peace and

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
tranquility
and can improve productivity.
these choices are far from being an accident. also dark

colors use

Post by Alberto Verdoja

less

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
power
on oled panels. :)
now for being different. attracting attention. standing

out. if we

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

looked

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
the
same, we'd blend in and then you find it hard to get people

to

Post by Alberto Verdoja

switch.

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
"you're
just the same!". they look at screenshots. they dont spend

the

Post by Alberto Verdoja

time to

Post by Martin Koelewijn

use

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
and
get to know e. they make their decisions on pretty

pictures.

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
so the bodhi color choice i would say goes contrary to what

is

Post by Alberto Verdoja

popular

Post by Martin Koelewijn

and

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
is
"acceptable" for people. sure - the green stands out, but

people

Post by Alberto Verdoja

don't

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
really
like green for their ui. looking at the theme, it looks

almost

Post by Alberto Verdoja

EXACTLY

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
like a
green version of ubuntu. i look at it and go "ewww. uglier

ubuntu.". it

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
has no
character. it has no soul. it has no identity of its own.

it's a

Post by Alberto Verdoja

copy

Post by Martin Koelewijn

of an

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
existing ui just with worse colors and less polish. you

want

Post by Alberto Verdoja

specific

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
feedback,
and this is it. at least from me. read up on color

psychology and

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
popularity
and then make a good choice. :)
the next problem is the ubuntu copy look. it just looks

bad. it may

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

blend

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
well
with ubuntus mods to gtk so it fits, but then it provides

no

Post by Alberto Verdoja

individual

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
character of its own. e then is just a poor copy of unity

in

Post by Alberto Verdoja

ubuntu.

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
for e's default theme i chose the colors, then another

concept -

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
squareness. i
made my gtk match - see attached gtkrc. at least color-wise

it

Post by Alberto Verdoja

doesn't

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
stand out
glaringly like a sore thumb, but there is a limit to how

well they

Post by Alberto Verdoja

can

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
match.
back to the default. yes - i chose bevels with shadows and

some

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

gradients.

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
yes
it's "old fashioned". the bitchers you see want something

that

Post by Alberto Verdoja

looks

Post by Martin Koelewijn

just

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
like
the flat design in the new osx or what google puts on their

pages.

Post by Alberto Verdoja

they

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
want it
because they love following fashion. in a few years fashion

will

Post by Alberto Verdoja

change

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
again.
i, for one, am not the kind of person who reads the fashion

mags

Post by Alberto Verdoja

and

Post by Martin Koelewijn

buys

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
a new
pare of pants, shoes etc. just because it's "the in thing

this

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

season", but

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
reality is a lot of people are just that and they will rain

insults

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

down

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
on you
unless what you provide matches THEIR exact perceived idea

of what

Post by Alberto Verdoja

is

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
"cool"
today. i chose the bevels and shadows because there is a

lot of ui

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
precedent
that these are important. they indicate to a user that it

is a

Post by Alberto Verdoja

BUTTON

Post by Martin Koelewijn

to be

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
CLICKED, as opposed to just some flat rectangle with some

text in

Post by Alberto Verdoja

it.

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
people
have no idea that they can CLICK that. to them it is a

passive

Post by Alberto Verdoja

label. i

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
stopped
listening to fashion followers long ago, because all you

end up

Post by Alberto Verdoja

with

Post by Martin Koelewijn

is a

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
continual chasing of the latest trend. reality is that

everyone has

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
different
tastes and THAT is what themes are for. we don't really

have the

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

manpower

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
to do
more than a single well polished theme. we just don't have

artists.

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

even

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
the
default theme is lacking. it lacks many icons it should

have. the

Post by Alberto Verdoja

icons

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
should
be consistent and match the theme, but there just hasn't

been time

Post by Alberto Verdoja

to

Post by Martin Koelewijn

work

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
on
it all. likely there never will be.
yes - the icons in the default theme need work. now for the

bodhi

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

theme.

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
take a
look at the icons in your screenshot, the "i" icon in the

about

Post by Alberto Verdoja

windows

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
has a
pure green that kind of clashes with the green int he

background.

Post by Alberto Verdoja

some

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
icons -
like the about theme one, come from tango. the epad icon

looks

Post by Alberto Verdoja

starkly

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
different to the pkgkit shield icon to its right. icons

should

Post by Alberto Verdoja

follow

Post by Martin Koelewijn

the

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
same
style, same look, same lighting and choose colors that

don't clash

Post by Alberto Verdoja

or

Post by Martin Koelewijn

look

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
garish. again - this is something an artist understands

it's the

Post by Alberto Verdoja

words

Post by Martin Koelewijn

to

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
be
given to those that do the artwork.
if you follow that reddit thread talking of webupd8 all the

negative

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
comments
are pretty much a "you're not being fashionable!". but then

again...

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
several of
the comments are pointing out bodhi mods - like the big red

shiny

Post by Alberto Verdoja

power

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
button
that is basically an early-osx style glassy shine slapped

into a ui

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

that

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
is grey
and matte. it just doesn't fit. draw an icon that fits -

either an

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

inset

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
grey
power icon or maybe a blue glowing one, but something that

matches

Post by Alberto Verdoja

the

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
scheme.
the button doesn't match at all. it's out of place. that

red power

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

button

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
may
be a module you can remove.. but people JUDGE on

screenshots - as

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

above.

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
you
want screenshots to look clean and consistent REGARDLESS of

style.

Post by Alberto Verdoja

yes

Post by Martin Koelewijn

e's

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
default style has bevels and 3d - but given the comments

people

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

actually

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
don't
mind that a lot of the time. it's when you go overboard

with shiny

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

glassy

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
effects that then don't fit, that people start to mock. and

they

Post by Alberto Verdoja

are

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
right. it
looks amateurish. if you have a style, define it and stick

to it -

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
everywhere.
again other complaints about "the horrible gradient in the

fm

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

sidebar"...

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
that
is a mode from bodhi changing the default. yes - the

default could

Post by Alberto Verdoja

do

Post by Martin Koelewijn

with

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
more
polish - especially icons, BUT the ad-hoc mods that just

don't fit

Post by Alberto Verdoja

in

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
stand out
and look bad. a lot of comments are personal, color

preference

Post by Alberto Verdoja

"lighter

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
please" (and you get the revers if you are light). this is

something i

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
wanted
to do eventually - generate a mid grey and light version of

the

Post by Alberto Verdoja

default

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
theme
from the original, BUT i just haven't gotten to it and i'd

want to

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

polish

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
it up
more. i only made colorclasses work again recently. simotek

has

Post by Alberto Verdoja

been

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
working on
his scripts and tools to generate new colors versions of

the

Post by Alberto Verdoja

default

Post by Martin Koelewijn

and

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
that
is good. they at least look consistent and polished.
also there needs to be control. edje files are insanely

complex.

Post by Alberto Verdoja

they

Post by Martin Koelewijn

can

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
do a
hell of a lot. a lot of the design is in restricting what

you do.

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

keeping

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
to a
simple and consistent subset of colors, shapes and

concepts. bad

Post by Alberto Verdoja

themes

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
just
turn on everything including the kitchen sink.
also another note. all the HAPPY users go away and be

happy. they

Post by Alberto Verdoja

stay

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
quiet.
you hear the noise of the UNHAPPY ones, so it always looks

out of

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
proportion.
there is also always a large set of noisy trolls that love

to beat

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

down on

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
anything but their favorite chosen thing.
summary - don't do half-arsed themes. do a full completely

done and

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
consistent
theme that pays attention to color phsychology. don't mix

and match

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

styles

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
and
components. so dot your i's, cross your t's. make your

screenshots

Post by Alberto Verdoja

LOOK

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
GOOD.
people will judge you on them. most will. choose

conservative

Post by Alberto Verdoja

colors in

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
general
and make sure everything is polished and consistent. that

is what

Post by Alberto Verdoja

lends

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
quality
to something.
yes the config dialogs are a mess. it's 10 years of config

option

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

addition

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
one
after another. it needs a re-do, but the time just hasn't

been

Post by Alberto Verdoja

there as

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
other
things are more important to where the resources come from

(EFL

Post by Alberto Verdoja

itself,

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
wayland
etc.). if i had the time, i'd have redone all the icons by

now and

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

have a

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
decent icon theme that ships with e that has 100's of the

icons

Post by Alberto Verdoja

needed

Post by Martin Koelewijn

to

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
cover
most apps. but i don't. :(
does this help?

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Is basically the feedback I get from non-E users most

times.

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Thoughts on

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel

Post by Jeff Hoogland
this?
Recent example ->

http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/27qt7k/bodhi_linux_300_rc1_released_ubuntu_1404_base/

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel

Post by Jeff Hoogland
--
~Jeff Hoogland <http://jeffhoogland.com/>
Thoughts on Technology

<http://jeffhoogland.blogspot.com/>, Tech

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Blog

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Bodhi Linux <http://bodhilinux.com/>, Enlightenment for

your

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Desktop

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel

Post by Jeff Hoogland
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from

LexisNexis Risk

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Solutions

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty

Data.

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data

Exploration

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel

Post by Jeff Hoogland
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list

https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland

Post by David Seikel
--
------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am"

--------------

Post by Jeff Hoogland
--
~Jeff Hoogland <http://jeffhoogland.com/>
Thoughts on Technology <http://jeffhoogland.blogspot.com/>,

Tech

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Blog

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Bodhi Linux <http://bodhilinux.com/>, Enlightenment for your

Desktop
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis

Risk

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Solutions

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data

Exploration

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Post by Jeff Hoogland
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list

https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

--
------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am"

--------------

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk

Solutions

Post by Martin Koelewijn

Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data

Exploration

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn

http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list

https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk

Solutions

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data

Exploration

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Post by Martin Koelewijn
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

--
------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am"

--------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by Alberto Verdoja

HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk

Solutions

Post by Alberto Verdoja

Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data

Exploration

Post by Alberto Verdoja

http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by Alberto Verdoja
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk

Solutions

Post by Alberto Verdoja
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

--
------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am"
--------------

[Stefano]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Rasterman,

your gtkrc theme is the one that integrates better with E. Of course I'm not
surprised since its yours.

Thanks a lot for sharing it.

It would be great if the theme could be somehow added to E's release or put in
a repo or something so that it can be packaged as something like
gnome-enlighenment-theme. Possibly, it can be renamed "E Clearlooks" so that it
won't override the standard Clearlooks theme.

As I already mentioned in the past, it would also be great if one could have an
X11 mouse pointer that blends with E's default one (e.g. it's weird to see one's
pointer change when clicking on Firefox tabs).

Just a thought,

- -- Stefano

P.S.
Personally, I don't find E ugly and awful at all. I have been playing with
themes in E17 but I stuck with E18's default because it one of the best dark
themes ever.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)

iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTmVwIAAoJEFQWuLhMTpvmz2cH/3/HH1J90pUS4+JSVvLO2Zvv
etO/3KaAX8J6ZHyBmMQ1mkHU/G+6ANsv2GpOGiK7IWj9OyXyI3itepRVpwSocNJW
yRAL81IoOV01OBTcZRVm1+BN6i4xjTSAZHiSWQ0kfAlMiU/LS3vp3HRrJNK2nbbZ
9YFChoyeFsgxYMnqrizEJlAQhfS+gnDy1XH9DLqLauqEMTlPN92N7hYGOlyyT1Km
RG16yadfvKBynKNvJo2XixOnvXmXoYesyFQi15EEOFAHi2s8zoOCbNaxRqj1/0g9
ykz+96TolcLuwGhoc/gkY96Ndsc61SHc323W+xYBHYOHHadRp3F18cDq6NZJabY=
=

[Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)]

Post by Stefano
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Rasterman,
your gtkrc theme is the one that integrates better with E. Of course I'm not
surprised since its yours.
Thanks a lot for sharing it.

i barely tried. like.. barely... it really isn't that great - thus didn't
include it. if anythng were to be included it'd be some kind of automatic gtkrc
generator or embedding them in the edj file and extracting them out .. but that
code is not there. :)

Post by Stefano
It would be great if the theme could be somehow added to E's release or put in
a repo or something so that it can be packaged as something like
gnome-enlighenment-theme. Possibly, it can be renamed "E Clearlooks" so that
it won't override the standard Clearlooks theme.
As I already mentioned in the past, it would also be great if one could have
an X11 mouse pointer that blends with E's default one (e.g. it's weird to see
one's pointer change when clicking on Firefox tabs).
Just a thought,
- -- Stefano
P.S.
Personally, I don't find E ugly and awful at all. I have been playing with
themes in E17 but I stuck with E18's default because it one of the best dark
themes ever.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTmVwIAAoJEFQWuLhMTpvmz2cH/3/HH1J90pUS4+JSVvLO2Zvv
etO/3KaAX8J6ZHyBmMQ1mkHU/G+6ANsv2GpOGiK7IWj9OyXyI3itepRVpwSocNJW
yRAL81IoOV01OBTcZRVm1+BN6i4xjTSAZHiSWQ0kfAlMiU/LS3vp3HRrJNK2nbbZ
9YFChoyeFsgxYMnqrizEJlAQhfS+gnDy1XH9DLqLauqEMTlPN92N7hYGOlyyT1Km
RG16yadfvKBynKNvJo2XixOnvXmXoYesyFQi15EEOFAHi2s8zoOCbNaxRqj1/0g9
ykz+96TolcLuwGhoc/gkY96Ndsc61SHc323W+xYBHYOHHadRp3F18cDq6NZJabY=
=HF+m
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

[Stefano]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Thu, 12 Jun 2014 17:47:09 +0900

Post by Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)

Post by Stefano
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Rasterman,
your gtkrc theme is the one that integrates better with E. Of course I'm not
surprised since its yours.
Thanks a lot for sharing it.

i barely tried. like.. barely... it really isn't that great - thus didn't
include it. if anythng were to be included it'd be some kind of automatic
gtkrc generator or embedding them in the edj file and extracting them out ..
but that code is not there. :)

Well, I'd say that it's better than nothing anyway, but I respect your choice
of not to include it with E.

Thanks again for sharing.

Best,

- --
Stefano

Fortune of the day: "Excellent time to become a missing person."
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)

iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTmf/7AAoJEFQWuLhMTpvmPngIAIfoYJRjLXoiuWiiZotik1hg
Fs1C/3N2rb3VV3qbQGnCMkBKFCJip4G+vc/6jI70ngfOrPNOSbM7wP7unsu3pb4q
8CubPNek6WjkrdwwXBElkCIRpTanJaHHLQxDh37n9eZepubhSNc5ArS5cZwsSOUn
glVWqUNh+lp8kE+flPllpZthP4psFxRrDCEKuRl8BVQCOXOyRBY48valV3VFzEvs
1wM/C/mFG9YUy3INyWj+dczhuarCMlCwaZ2sT9ieeSzHR+c2hHzlHXoSNttwmUES
8a3U18bE9N1Wz9mVbbPjmUo0JDxQaMlfH1F+GW5eC9PH2YZSfFRoWAHUMO1A29E=
=bkW/
-----END PGP SIGNATURE--

[Pierre Couderc]

Post by Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
now the theme is dark (i chose dark greys so i could have some contrast and
difference between elements than pure black), with blue hilights. blue is NOT

Well, I am not an artist. Mmm, maybe I am not an artist...
Anyway, a color alone does not make sense. It is always in some environment.
In this case, the black neutral background is "cooled" by the blue,
giving a fairly "cool" environment.
That disturbs me, so I have changed the blue to a more "warm" yellow, to
warm the whole.
Another solution could be to keep the blue but to "warm" the black
background (with a touch of orange -complementary of blue -, giving a
warm black slightly brown ) to equilibrate the whole.
This is what I would like to try some day...

[Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)]

Post by Pierre Couderc

Post by Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
now the theme is dark (i chose dark greys so i could have some contrast and
difference between elements than pure black), with blue hilights. blue is

Well, I am not an artist. Mmm, maybe I am not an artist...
Anyway, a color alone does not make sense. It is always in some environment.
In this case, the black neutral background is "cooled" by the blue,
giving a fairly "cool" environment.
That disturbs me, so I have changed the blue to a more "warm" yellow, to
warm the whole.
Another solution could be to keep the blue but to "warm" the black
background (with a touch of orange -complementary of blue -, giving a
warm black slightly brown ) to equilibrate the whole.
This is what I would like to try some day...

i like the cool look. it's calm and "slick". like wearing a nice dark
grey/black suit with a nice blue shirt and black tie... :)

Loading Image...

:)

Post by Pierre Couderc
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users

[Pierre Couderc]

Post by Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)

Post by Pierre Couderc

Post by Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
now the theme is dark (i chose dark greys so i could have some contrast and
difference between elements than pure black), with blue hilights. blue is

Well, I am not an artist. Mmm, maybe I am not an artist...
Anyway, a color alone does not make sense. It is always in some environment.
In this case, the black neutral background is "cooled" by the blue,
giving a fairly "cool" environment.
That disturbs me, so I have changed the blue to a more "warm" yellow, to
warm the whole.
Another solution could be to keep the blue but to "warm" the black
background (with a touch of orange -complementary of blue -, giving a
warm black slightly brown ) to equilibrate the whole.
This is what I would like to try some day...

i like the cool look. it's calm and "slick". like wearing a nice dark
grey/black suit with a nice blue shirt and black tie... :)
http://thesuitsofjamesbond.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Charcoal-Windowpane-4.jpg
:)

Oh, I like your image.
But please see as it illustrates so well what I wanted to say :
The background of this image is not a neutral black!
It is a very warm black tainted with a warm deep brown (brown =
orange+black).
The colour of the face of JB is fairly warm too.
And so, the blue of the skirt equilibrates and makes vibrate this fairly
warm atmosphere.
The whole image is "gemütlich", "attractive"' and "séduisante".
Yes, it is a fine objective to try to reach...

[Boris Faure]

Post by Pierre Couderc

Post by Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)

Post by Pierre Couderc

Post by Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
now the theme is dark (i chose dark greys so i could have some contrast and
difference between elements than pure black), with blue hilights. blue is

Well, I am not an artist. Mmm, maybe I am not an artist...
Anyway, a color alone does not make sense. It is always in some environment.
In this case, the black neutral background is "cooled" by the blue,
giving a fairly "cool" environment.
That disturbs me, so I have changed the blue to a more "warm" yellow, to
warm the whole.
Another solution could be to keep the blue but to "warm" the black
background (with a touch of orange -complementary of blue -, giving a
warm black slightly brown ) to equilibrate the whole.
This is what I would like to try some day...

i like the cool look. it's calm and "slick". like wearing a nice dark
grey/black suit with a nice blue shirt and black tie... :)
http://thesuitsofjamesbond.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Charcoal-Windowpane-4.jpg
:)

Oh, I like your image.
The background of this image is not a neutral black!
It is a very warm black tainted with a warm deep brown (brown =
orange+black).
The colour of the face of JB is fairly warm too.
And so, the blue of the skirt equilibrates and makes vibrate this fairly
warm atmosphere.
The whole image is "gemütlich", "attractive"' and "séduisante".
Yes, it is a fine objective to try to reach...

Shouldn't a warm wallpaper do it?

[Pierre Couderc]

Maybe.
But the idea of default style seems to me sobriety...
It comes without wallpaper.

Post by Boris Faure

Post by Pierre Couderc

Post by Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)

Post by Pierre Couderc

Post by Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
now the theme is dark (i chose dark greys so i could have some contrast and
difference between elements than pure black), with blue hilights. blue is

Well, I am not an artist. Mmm, maybe I am not an artist...
Anyway, a color alone does not make sense. It is always in some environment.
In this case, the black neutral background is "cooled" by the blue,
giving a fairly "cool" environment.
That disturbs me, so I have changed the blue to a more "warm" yellow, to
warm the whole.
Another solution could be to keep the blue but to "warm" the black
background (with a touch of orange -complementary of blue -, giving a
warm black slightly brown ) to equilibrate the whole.
This is what I would like to try some day...

i like the cool look. it's calm and "slick". like wearing a nice dark
grey/black suit with a nice blue shirt and black tie... :)
http://thesuitsofjamesbond.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Charcoal-Windowpane-4.jpg
:)

Oh, I like your image.
The background of this image is not a neutral black!
It is a very warm black tainted with a warm deep brown (brown =
orange+black).
The colour of the face of JB is fairly warm too.
And so, the blue of the skirt equilibrates and makes vibrate this fairly
warm atmosphere.
The whole image is "gemütlich", "attractive"' and "séduisante".
Yes, it is a fine objective to try to reach...

Shouldn't a warm wallpaper do it?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
enlightenment-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users