Discussion:
[e-users] I'm rapidly learning to love e16! But how can I...
Joe(theWordy)Philbrook
2009-02-12 07:57:54 UTC
Permalink
Hello.

I've got e16 installed to 3 different linux installations on both my
desktop and my laptop... It didn't take very long for me to learn to
tweak things my way. I'm very keyboard centric and the sample
bindings.cfg file was well commented. Combined with a few instances of
using e16keyedit (which unfortunately likes to kill the comment
lines) (New process:

cp ~/.e16/bindings.cfg ~/tmp

{use gui tool to insert something I didn't have an example of
such as the "page-up" key is called "Prior", the winkey is a
number <error e16keyedit thinks the win key is Mod2 But in all
six bindings.cfg filesI had to use 4, not 2, which another
e16keyedit run will change to "-" sigh> and such...}

vim ~/.e16/bindings.cfg ~/tmp/bindings.cfg

{find the new bit inserted by e16keyedit and replicate it in
my still fully commented ~/tmp version}

cp ~/tmp/bindings.cfg ~/.e16

restart

It usually works! And it's sure easier to make sweeping changes in
e16's bindings.cfg this way than it is to click click click one
niggling item at a time in kde4's gui tool.

Once I figured out how to configure both multiple desktops and virtual
desktops to switch via the keyboard and disable the mouse method that
I kept doing by mistake, I figured out that if the font settings I
need to read something, causes a gui tool to be too big for the screen,
I can still reach the buttons that didn't fit by switching to the
adjacent virtual desktop where those buttons went. I'm loving it!

However there are a few things I could use a solution for:

It's no big surprise that most of them involve the mouse... I navigate
menus with the arrow keys... For example my kde roots are demonstrated
by this binding:

KeyDown A F1 menus show enlightenment.menu

Now I'm not overly stressed by the fact that if the menu happens to
open up on top of the mouse pointers position the pointer is going to
affect the menu... ( I don't like it but I'm used to it. This happens
in every gui I've ever tried... Though in my opinion WHEN the KEYBOARD
is used to open a menu, said menu should completely ignore the mouse
unless explicitly clicked on...)

But I am bothered by the fact that the mouse pointer keeps jumping
from where I parked it to make kamikaze dives at the menu I'm trying
to keep away from it... Is it possible to configure the mouse to ONLY
move when expressly moved by the user????

Speaking of those pop up menus... I understand that without a start
button it's hard to decide just where the menus initial screen position
should be. But I dearly wish it was consistently anchored someplace
<anyplace> so I could TRY to keep the mouse away from it.

And would it be that hard to anchor the winops menus to the window they
are going to affect?

With this binding in place:

KeyDown CA w menus show winops.menu

I get frustrated when:
<ctrl>+<alt>+<A> {select Annihilate} doesn't destroy the process I
thought had the focus...

Still, all in all, If that's the worst of it, their going to need a
crowbar someday, if they want to bury me without entombing a copy of
enlightenment. It's the shortest list of gripes I've ever had with a
gui...
--
| ~^~ ~^~
| <?> <?> Joe (theWordy) Philbrook
| ^ J(tWdy)P
| \___/ <<***@ttlc.net>>
Jean-Philippe Monteiro
2009-02-12 09:54:29 UTC
Permalink
I am less of an extremist, you may want to play with Focus, disabling all of them.

Trough the bindings file, you can have your menu at-a-key; I don't see how you could pre-define
where it would pop though...

Kwo? Any suggestion?
Post by Joe(theWordy)Philbrook
Still, all in all, If that's the worst of it, their going to need a
crowbar someday, if they want to bury me without entombing a copy of
enlightenment. It's the shortest list of gripes I've ever had with a
gui...
:D

You may want to try ratpoison though...

Jean-Philippe
--
Although golf was originally restricted to wealthy, overweight
Protestants, today it's open to anybody who owns hideous clothing.
-- Dave Barry
Joe(theWordy)Philbrook
2009-02-12 17:24:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jean-Philippe Monteiro
I am less of an extremist, you may want to play with Focus, disabling all of them.
I wouldn't mind so much except that for a long time now I can keyboard
for hours with the only problem being a case of saddle sores from my
chair... ;-7 But if I wrestle with a mouse pointer for as little as
5 minutes, my hand starts going numb... (similar problem if I try to
do much writing by hand, and good gosh lord help me if I need to sew
a ripped out pair of pants...

Anyway anytime I HAVE to put down the keyboard in favor of intensive
mouse work, I'm unhappy.

I'm not so sure I want to disable all of that. If the window doesn't
get focus I won't be able to type into it... There are only three items
in the focus settings about "sending the mouse" when the focus
changes, and All of them are UNchecked...
Post by Jean-Philippe Monteiro
Trough the bindings file, you can have your menu at-a-key; I don't see
how you could pre-define where it would pop though...
Sure do. But I still need the menus as there are two many things for
me to remember a separate one. Like for example the win-ops stuff.
As long as I can have a familiar shortcut pop a windows operations
menu that include a way to maximize, unmaximize, mini^H^H^H^H iconify
I always disable one stroke shortcuts to do those things. (Especially
<alt>+<F4> which I've fat fingered more times than my sanity will
allow me to remember...)
Post by Jean-Philippe Monteiro
Kwo? Any suggestion?
By the way, I've had a chance to play with e17 today. It's menus
seemed to be slightly better behaved. If I set click to focus the mouse
doesn't have to stay where I'm typing.( The mouse wants to jump to the
newly focused window. And the menu always opens where the mouse pointer
is. BUT when I open a menu with the keyboard the pointer stays in the
top left corner of the top level open menu while I navigate it with
the cursor keys...

But it looks like they won't let me bypass using a click intensive gui
tool to do the configurations. Sigh! But IF I can get the configs set
my way, I think I'll like it! That is if I can find a way to confirm
logout with the keyboard. I don't want to totally disable logout
confirmation. But I like being able to use <ctrl>+<enter> with e16 Or
the way the current kde scheme lets me hit <Alt>+<L> instead of having
to "click" on the pop-up confirmation dialog box... Ah well Just tell
me that neither Enlightenment, nor the linux distros will ever pull
the plug on e16 as a WM like Kubuntu/kde.org is doing to kde3 and I'll
be happy...
--
| ^^^ ^^^
| <o> <o> Joe (theWordy) Philbrook
| ^ J(tWdy)P
| ___ <<***@ttlc.net>>
|
| <sigh>
Kim Woelders
2009-02-12 17:46:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe(theWordy)Philbrook
Post by Jean-Philippe Monteiro
I am less of an extremist, you may want to play with Focus, disabling
all
of them.
I wouldn't mind so much except that for a long time now I can keyboard
for hours with the only problem being a case of saddle sores from my
chair... ;-7 But if I wrestle with a mouse pointer for as little as
5 minutes, my hand starts going numb... (similar problem if I try to
do much writing by hand, and good gosh lord help me if I need to sew
a ripped out pair of pants...
Anyway anytime I HAVE to put down the keyboard in favor of intensive
mouse work, I'm unhappy.
I'm not so sure I want to disable all of that. If the window doesn't
get focus I won't be able to type into it... There are only three items
in the focus settings about "sending the mouse" when the focus
changes, and All of them are UNchecked...
You can disable the menu "pointer warp" in the Menu Settings dialog.
Post by Joe(theWordy)Philbrook
Post by Jean-Philippe Monteiro
Trough the bindings file, you can have your menu at-a-key; I don't see
how you could pre-define where it would pop though...
As is the menu pop-up position is determined by the pointer position (and the "Always pop up menus on screen" setting).

/Kim
Joe(theWordy)Philbrook
2009-02-14 07:42:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kim Woelders
You can disable the menu "pointer warp" in the Menu Settings dialog.
Post by Jean-Philippe Monteiro
Trough the bindings file, you can have your menu at-a-key; I don't see
how you could pre-define where it would pop though...
As is the menu pop-up position is determined by the pointer position
(and the "Always pop up menus on screen" setting).
Thank you Kim. disabling "warp" helps... The menu on screen setting
winds up with my menus sometimes not being visible and therefore is
not suitable for my needs...

Still If I can just remember to sling my mouse pointer towards the
upper left corner of my screen before tapping out a keyboard shortcut
then disabling warp will work for me...

There is another small thing I'm hoping you could give me a clue
about... "Buttons" and such config screens and some pop-ups...
Is there any way to select them with the keyboard???
Most of these don't bother me too much in e16 as they are large
enough, and I don't use them often enough for my issues with mouse
activities to become an actual "problem" But I would dearly love to
be able to tab my way to the column of buttons in the "Enlightenment
Settings" pop-up, arrow down to the particular category {such as the
"Menus" button} select it with enter, Then tab my way to the list of
options and then arrow down to the "warp pointer" choice, then check
or uncheck it with the enter key. and finally tab my to the apply
button...

Heck even if only the tab worked and it went through all the choices,
I could select "Menu Settings" from the settings menu and tab my way
to the "warp pointer" choice...

This is going to be a bigger problem for me when I wind up with e17
however. ( At least if the version of it I got for my OpenSuSE install
via an "dmitry_serpokryl" repository on ftp5.gwdg.de is any
indication.

It looks like I'll like some things about e17 But it's got me worried.
I mean I "LIKED" kde3, but kde4 makes me queasy... Sooner or later e17
will be THE stable E and the various linux repos/package management
systems will want me to dump e16...

On e17 I can't even use the keyboard to accept the logout confirmation
pop-up. (Since I use startx the multi-choice version doesn't make
sense for me) With e16 and some experimentation I found I could say:
"NO don't log out" with the escape key. And "Yes do logout" with an
<cttl>+<enter>... With e17 I cant find a way to gracefully logout
unless I actually use the mouse to confirm it...

Also the configuration screens on e17 were giving me fits. Oh they
look more visually appealing than the some what boxy looking pop-ups in
e16. But they are definitely being developed by someone who can't
imagine that some users have a problem with mouse methods.

For example: Once I know what shortcuts And menu adjustments I want
(such as moving rarely used win-ops choices to the miscellaneous sub
menu and (since e16 the Sabyon linux on my laptop doesn't respond to
ANY of my keybindings until I give it a restart I added restart to
all my e16 win ops menus with which I can point at any window (even a
pager...) and do an "<alt>+<right-click> {select restart} <enter>" and
it's good to go) Any way Once I really knew what I wanted the bindings
and menu files to look like then with vim, and lots of copy paste and
a restart I was able to get it set up my way in about one and a
quarter hours. Then it took me about another 2 hrs to clone that
set up on the other 5 e16 installations:
[ (Kubuntu, OpenSuSE, And Sabayon) * (desktop + laptop) = 6 total

Once I knew the diff between multiple desktops and Virtual ones AND knew
how to stop the mouse from edge flipping the virtual ones. It took me
less than 4 hours to set up 6 different e16 installations to each have 9
desktops with a 2x2 virtual desktop setting AND configure each of the 9
desktops to have it's own wallpaper.

When I tried to set up those same things with only ONE e17*
(not counting the time it took to learn that I couldn't just edit the
config files anymore and learning that as far as I can see the
multiple desktop and virtual desktop features appear to be combined.
It took me over 8 hours (actually nearly 16 hours but I'm not counting
the time I had to stop to let my hands recover from numbness do to
excessive mouse work...) Just to configure my short cuts It might have
taken less time if it was possible to see what an existing shortcut
was mapped to without selecting it. I mean with both kde and gnome
style shortcut gui's they have a list of possible actions and you can
see what shortcuts are assigned to what without clicking on each one.
I don't mind the idea (in fact I like it) That if I delete all, and
then only crate 5 key bindings, my list will be only 5 items long. But
I don't know why it can't display what the binding does without it
having to be individually selected... And to top it off there were some
that I had to do several times... I had a copy of my e16 bindings in
front of me as I tried to clone them as close as possible on e17.
sometimes I'd create a shortcut key sequence only to realize that I'd
fat fingered the shortcut and need to delete it. Usually after I did
that one of my other shortcuts would mysteriously get resigned to a
different function ( most commonly I had put my show win-ops short cut
back onto the <ctrl>+<alt><+space> key about 6 times because it kept
getting reset to logout??? Then of course I had to double check each
and every one of the bindings I had so far configured...

The next day, after copying my current wallpaper images to
~/.e/backgrounds I started the task of selecting one image for each of
the virtual desktops. Now admittedly instead of having 9 desktops with
a 2x2 virtual desktop grid (assigned to <ctrl>+<F[1-9]>) I had a grid
of 3x4 virtual desktops (one for each <ctrl>+<F-key> on my keyboard.
But 12 vs 9 isn't that big a diff.

But anyway this was after I figured out that I needed to select a .jpg,
and then install it as wallpaper (selecting if I want it stretched,
centered, tiled or whatever) when it would create an .edj file...

Unfortunately every so often I would forget to select advanced and
override the default to put the one wallpaper on ALL desktops which
would make me have to start over. Until I hit on the idea of Not
closing the pop-up tool but sending it to the next Virtual desktop via
the win-ops pop-up (which refused to offer the iconify choice for the
settings tool that it would have offered for a regular application)
Anyway once I started doing it that way I got about half way through
when I accidentaly closed it... Wouldn't you know when I restarted it I
forgot to reset the all desktops option <sigh> {I didn't say I was the
brightest bulb in the box...}

Anyway. I wasn't sleepy so I started the wallpaper project for E17 when
my lady went to bed around 9pm... When she got up at 5am to ask me if:
(her words: "Since you hadn't bothered to go to bed, would I pul-ease put
away that {her expletive deleted} computer and start a pot of coffee?" )
I discovered that I had spent all night and I still have three desktop
backgrounds to fix... If I get klutzy with that all desktop setting
again I'll probably need a new laptop Cause I just know I'll take a
hammer to it...

I don't know if anybody here has any pull with the people actualy
developing E17. But if you do, PLEASE ask them to consider adding
keyboard support to the configuration setting tools...


Aside from that. Once I eventually get everything configured just so.
It looks like I'll like using E17. But I'm thinking it's going to be a
real pain setting up 6 installations to be all the same... Unless. If
ALL the linux disto's adopt the same release of it so That I can
configure one. and then make a tarball out of ~/.e and extract exact
copies of all those non-human-editable files to the other distros
without something choking on an old/new <incompatible> file format...

I guess I'll just have to enjoy the heck out of E16 until I'm forced
to upgrade the same way kubuntu pushed {retch} kde4 on me...
:r $sig/cry
--
|
| ^^^ ^^^
| <o> <o> Joe (theWordy) Philbrook
| ^ ` J(tWdy)P
| ___ <<***@ttlc.net>>
| ' `

But if I actually knew everything, then I'd know I was an idiot...
Kim Woelders
2009-02-14 17:47:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe(theWordy)Philbrook
Post by Kim Woelders
You can disable the menu "pointer warp" in the Menu Settings dialog.
Post by Jean-Philippe Monteiro
Trough the bindings file, you can have your menu at-a-key; I don't
see
Post by Jean-Philippe Monteiro
how you could pre-define where it would pop though...
As is the menu pop-up position is determined by the pointer position
(and the "Always pop up menus on screen" setting).
Thank you Kim. disabling "warp" helps... The menu on screen setting
winds up with my menus sometimes not being visible and therefore is
not suitable for my needs...
Still If I can just remember to sling my mouse pointer towards the
upper left corner of my screen before tapping out a keyboard shortcut
then disabling warp will work for me...
There is another small thing I'm hoping you could give me a clue
about... "Buttons" and such config screens and some pop-ups...
Is there any way to select them with the keyboard???
Most of these don't bother me too much in e16 as they are large
enough, and I don't use them often enough for my issues with mouse
activities to become an actual "problem" But I would dearly love to
be able to tab my way to the column of buttons in the "Enlightenment
Settings" pop-up, arrow down to the particular category {such as the
"Menus" button} select it with enter, Then tab my way to the list of
options and then arrow down to the "warp pointer" choice, then check
or uncheck it with the enter key. and finally tab my to the apply
button...
Heck even if only the tab worked and it went through all the choices,
I could select "Menu Settings" from the settings menu and tab my way
to the "warp pointer" choice...
Yeah, that is not implemented. I have seen the configuration dialogs as places you go once in a while to adjust something but not stay long enough to become annoyed about having to use the mouse.
You can of course avoid using the mouse entirely by using "eesh" (see "eesh help" and README-0.16.8).

/Kim
Joe(theWordy)Philbrook
2009-02-15 16:27:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kim Woelders
Post by Joe(theWordy)Philbrook
There is another small thing I'm hoping you could give me a clue
about... "Buttons" and such config screens and some pop-ups...
Is there any way to select them with the keyboard???
Yeah, that is not implemented.
<sigh> Do you think there is any hope that they will implement this in
E17????
Post by Kim Woelders
I have seen the configuration dialogs as places you go once in a while to
adjust something but not stay long enough to become annoyed about having
to use the mouse.
I have to admit that most of them at least only fall into the category
of minor annoyance...

The biggest exception in e16 is bypassed because, at least with:
"KeyDown CA Delete exit logout" the single choice confirmation
pop-up accepts <Ctrl>+<enter>
{Which is especially important to me when the reason
I've decided to logout and shutdown is because I've
already over used the mouse and my hands need a
serious break... And or when I realize I've been up
so long that my face keeps bouncing of the keyboard
every couple of minutes and I can no longer see well
enough to point at the yes log out button...}
I note however that the logout confirmation pop-up in E17 does not
accept <ctrl>+<enter> Sigh! So I'm hoping that at some point before I
can't get e16 anymore they have implemented keyboard methods for
E17...
Post by Kim Woelders
You can of course avoid using the mouse entirely by using "eesh" (see
"eesh help" and README-0.16.8).
Thank you! That's an interesting topic.

Since I'm one who likes to edit my ~/.e16/bindings.cfg by hand it
doesn't hurt much that "eesh help full" says:

----------------------------------------
set_keybindings : Set keybindings (deprecated)
----------------------------------------

At least not with e16. But if e17 has eesh then I'm saddened by this
as it means I will be stuck with that annoying gui. (since as far as I
can see they moved away from using human editable .cfg files...)

On the other hand:
----------------------------------------
get_keybindings : List keybindings (deprecated)
----------------------------------------

doesn't bother me at all because: IF e17 has eesh then these
aren't depreciated yet:
aclass kb List key bindings
aclass list [name/all] List action class[es]
aclass load [name] Reload action classes (default is bindings.cfg)

Unfortunately the "aclass load [name]" wouldn't help much if I can't
manually edit whatever e17 is using for a "bindings.cfg" (which cfg file I
can't locate on e17...)

Speaking of which. I just booted my laptop into e17 and it has
something that answers to "eesh --help" with a short list
of options -e, -ewait, and "" interactive. All of which just sit there
waiting for eesh to do something... So I think it just might currently
be broken. <sigh> I hates "gui setup tools" more than Yosemite Sam ever
hated "rabbits" And like Bugs, to me they are "real stinkers"...
--
| ^^^ ^^^
| <o> <o> Joe (theWordy) Philbrook
| ^ J(tWdy)P
| ___ <<***@ttlc.net>>
|
| <sigh>
P Purkayastha
2009-02-15 18:35:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe(theWordy)Philbrook
Post by Kim Woelders
Post by Joe(theWordy)Philbrook
There is another small thing I'm hoping you could give me a clue
about... "Buttons" and such config screens and some pop-ups...
Is there any way to select them with the keyboard???
Yeah, that is not implemented.
<sigh> Do you think there is any hope that they will implement this in
E17????
Post by Kim Woelders
I have seen the configuration dialogs as places you go once in a while to
adjust something but not stay long enough to become annoyed about having
to use the mouse.
I have to admit that most of them at least only fall into the category
of minor annoyance...
"KeyDown CA Delete exit logout" the single choice confirmation
pop-up accepts <Ctrl>+<enter>
{Which is especially important to me when the reason
I've decided to logout and shutdown is because I've
already over used the mouse and my hands need a
serious break... And or when I realize I've been up
so long that my face keeps bouncing of the keyboard
every couple of minutes and I can no longer see well
enough to point at the yes log out button...}
I note however that the logout confirmation pop-up in E17 does not
accept <ctrl>+<enter> Sigh! So I'm hoping that at some point before I
can't get e16 anymore they have implemented keyboard methods for
E17...
Post by Kim Woelders
You can of course avoid using the mouse entirely by using "eesh" (see
"eesh help" and README-0.16.8).
Thank you! That's an interesting topic.
Since I'm one who likes to edit my ~/.e16/bindings.cfg by hand it
----------------------------------------
set_keybindings : Set keybindings (deprecated)
----------------------------------------
At least not with e16. But if e17 has eesh then I'm saddened by this
as it means I will be stuck with that annoying gui. (since as far as I
can see they moved away from using human editable .cfg files...)
----------------------------------------
get_keybindings : List keybindings (deprecated)
----------------------------------------
doesn't bother me at all because: IF e17 has eesh then these
aclass kb List key bindings
aclass list [name/all] List action class[es]
aclass load [name] Reload action classes (default is bindings.cfg)
Unfortunately the "aclass load [name]" wouldn't help much if I can't
manually edit whatever e17 is using for a "bindings.cfg" (which cfg file I
can't locate on e17...)
Speaking of which. I just booted my laptop into e17 and it has
something that answers to "eesh --help" with a short list
of options -e, -ewait, and "" interactive. All of which just sit there
waiting for eesh to do something... So I think it just might currently
be broken. <sigh> I hates "gui setup tools" more than Yosemite Sam ever
hated "rabbits" And like Bugs, to me they are "real stinkers"...
You need to look into enlightenment_remote in e17. It has got command line
logout and keybinding settings.



If you use zsh, then put the following lines in your ~/.zshrc (I don't
know if there is an equivalent setting for bash shell):

# Completion for enlightenment_remote
compdef _gnu_generic enlightenment_remote

The above will provide you with basic command completion of
enlightenment_remote's options :)



Once you have setup your key, mouse, etc bindings you can use this script
to store them as a bash executable file (a lot of other settings are also
stored):
http://ppurka.googlepages.com/e17_setup.sh

HTH
Joe(theWordy)Philbrook
2009-02-17 05:30:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by P Purkayastha
Post by Joe(theWordy)Philbrook
Since I'm one who likes to edit my ~/.e16/bindings.cfg by hand it
----------------------------------------
set_keybindings : Set keybindings (deprecated)
----------------------------------------
At least not with e16. But if e17 has eesh then I'm saddened by this
as it means I will be stuck with that annoying gui. (since as far as I
can see they moved away from using human editable .cfg files...)
----------------------------------------
get_keybindings : List keybindings (deprecated)
----------------------------------------
doesn't bother me at all because: IF e17 has eesh then these
aclass kb List key bindings
aclass list [name/all] List action class[es]
aclass load [name] Reload action classes (default is bindings.cfg)
Unfortunately the "aclass load [name]" wouldn't help much if I can't
manually edit whatever e17 is using for a "bindings.cfg" (which cfg file I
can't locate on e17...)
Speaking of which. I just booted my laptop into e17 and it has
something that answers to "eesh --help" with a short list
of options -e, -ewait, and "" interactive. All of which just sit there
waiting for eesh to do something... So I think it just might currently
be broken. <sigh> I hates "gui setup tools" more than Yosemite Sam ever
hated "rabbits" And like Bugs, to me they are "real stinkers"...
You need to look into enlightenment_remote in e17. It has got command line
logout and keybinding settings.
I thank you... enlightenment_remote looks to be as close to what I'm
looking for in e17 as I'm ever going to get. It's going to take a bit
to figure out how to use some of it's features though. I don't suppose
there's a good tutorial or How-To around that doesn't assume the user
understands the syntax or terminology used...
(looking at "enlightenment_remote --help" it took me at least five
minutes to get the idea that "OPT1" wasn't the literal name of some
options file)

I did find the the -logout, -shutdown, & -reboot options interesting. I
did a partial test. I was disappointed two learn that these options
don't bypass the confirmation pop-ups That still don't listen to the
keyboard... Though actually I "LIKE" a confirmation that I hadn't just
fat-fingered a keybinding... I just want a KEYbinding for confirming
that I want to logout...

On the other hand as a startx user I was pleased to learn that the
-shutdown will actually get the 'puter to poweroff (after I "click" on
the confirmation box of course...) It usually seams that this is only
available for normal users when they logged in via something like
kdm or gdm... Or when they have the time to enter a password for su or
sudo.
Post by P Purkayastha
If you use zsh, then put the following lines in your ~/.zshrc (I don't
# Completion for enlightenment_remote
compdef _gnu_generic enlightenment_remote
The above will provide you with basic command completion of
enlightenment_remote's options :)
I'm not so wild about command completion I'm more likely to open two
xterms. Run "enlightenment_remote --help|less" on one and run specific
configuration commands on the other...
Post by P Purkayastha
Once you have setup your key, mouse, etc bindings you can use this script
to store them as a bash executable file (a lot of other settings are also
http://ppurka.googlepages.com/e17_setup.sh
Thanks again! does this mean I can save the setup to a file and then
load that file into an e17 installation on another linux install to
"clone" the environment. Heck even if "enlightenment_remote" didn't
offer hope of eventually knowing enough to bypass the gui tools, the
ability to only have to do it once. . . . (wow!)
--
| ^^^ ^^^
| <O> <O> Joe (theWordy) Philbrook
| ^ J(tWdy)P
| \___/ <<***@ttlc.net>>
P Purkayastha
2009-02-17 13:44:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe(theWordy)Philbrook
Post by P Purkayastha
You need to look into enlightenment_remote in e17. It has got command line
logout and keybinding settings.
I thank you... enlightenment_remote looks to be as close to what I'm
looking for in e17 as I'm ever going to get. It's going to take a bit
to figure out how to use some of it's features though. I don't suppose
there's a good tutorial or How-To around that doesn't assume the user
understands the syntax or terminology used...
(looking at "enlightenment_remote --help" it took me at least five
minutes to get the idea that "OPT1" wasn't the literal name of some
options file)
I did find the the -logout, -shutdown, & -reboot options interesting. I
did a partial test. I was disappointed two learn that these options
don't bypass the confirmation pop-ups That still don't listen to the
keyboard... Though actually I "LIKE" a confirmation that I hadn't just
fat-fingered a keybinding... I just want a KEYbinding for confirming
that I want to logout...
On the other hand as a startx user I was pleased to learn that the
-shutdown will actually get the 'puter to poweroff (after I "click" on
the confirmation box of course...) It usually seams that this is only
available for normal users when they logged in via something like
kdm or gdm... Or when they have the time to enter a password for su or
sudo.
There are three things worth noting:

1. You can shut up the confirmation dialogs: Settings->Dialogs.

2. The confirmation dialogs usually come up with default setting at "No".
You can press "Tab" and then "Enter" to execute "Yes". If you use a theme
like detour (http://code.google.com/p/detour/), it actually highlights the
option "Yes" or "No" that is currently chosen.

3. If you want to logout immediately, give the -exit option to
enlightenment_remote.
Post by Joe(theWordy)Philbrook
Post by P Purkayastha
Once you have setup your key, mouse, etc bindings you can use this script
to store them as a bash executable file (a lot of other settings are also
http://ppurka.googlepages.com/e17_setup.sh
Thanks again! does this mean I can save the setup to a file and then
load that file into an e17 installation on another linux install to
"clone" the environment. Heck even if "enlightenment_remote" didn't
offer hope of eventually knowing enough to bypass the gui tools, the
ability to only have to do it once. . . . (wow!)
No, not all the settings. Only a part of the settings can be stored,
depending on how much enlightenment_remote supports and how much the
script can automatically save. In particular, you can never get back your
shelf settings, but you will get back all the modules that you want
loaded. I mainly use this to backup my key, mouse, wheel and signal
bindings and my window focus settings. There is one drawback which I have
not been able to address: if you run the output produced by this script,
that should delete all the current key/mouse/signal/wheel bindings and
then introduce your settings; however some *duplicates* remain. I think
e17 does not allow you to delete certain keybindings, mousebindings, etc.

The output file it creates is a bash script. You can easily open the
output file in an editor and see what commands the output file will
potentially run.
Joe(theWordy)Philbrook
2009-02-19 04:27:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by P Purkayastha
Post by Joe(theWordy)Philbrook
I did find the the -logout, -shutdown, & -reboot options interesting. I
did a partial test. I was disappointed two learn that these options
don't bypass the confirmation pop-ups That still don't listen to the
keyboard... Though actually I "LIKE" a confirmation that I hadn't just
fat-fingered a keybinding... I just want a KEYbinding for confirming
that I want to logout...
1. You can shut up the confirmation dialogs: Settings->Dialogs.
Well I'm glad to know I could do that... Of course Since as I
mentioned I do like a little protection from fat fingering as long as
I can confirm with the keyboard I would then have to see if I can't
reassign <ctrl>+<alt>+<del> to a command that opens a konsole running a
an interactive bash script that conditionaly ran:
enlightenment_remote -logout
Post by P Purkayastha
2. The confirmation dialogs usually come up with default setting at
"No". You can press "Tab" and then "Enter" to execute "Yes". If you use
a theme like detour (http://code.google.com/p/detour/), it actually
highlights the option "Yes" or "No" that is currently chosen.
Ah... So the fact that I couldn't find a key combo to do that is a
theme issue...

After a bit of stumbling around trying to tell the diff between my
{censored} and my elbow, I managed to get detour-0.7.3_e17.edj
installed. And yes, the tab/enter selection in the various pop-ups.
Though I note that the highlighting of the selected option with such a
slim blue outline makes my tired eyes squint... Even so, it's 500%
better than being stuck HAVING to "click" on such things
Post by P Purkayastha
Post by Joe(theWordy)Philbrook
Thanks again! does this mean I can save the setup to a file and then
load that file into an e17 installation on another linux install to
"clone" the environment. Heck even if "enlightenment_remote" didn't
offer hope of eventually knowing enough to bypass the gui tools, the
ability to only have to do it once. . . . (wow!)
No, not all the settings. Only a part of the settings can be stored,
depending on how much enlightenment_remote supports and how much the
script can automatically save. In particular, you can never get back
your shelf settings, but you will get back all the modules that you
want loaded.
That would mean more to me if I had a clue about the shelf and
modules... Perhaps I'll find a good tutorial sometime.
Post by P Purkayastha
I mainly use this to backup my key, mouse, wheel and signal bindings and
my window focus settings. There is one drawback which I have not been
able to address: if you run the output produced by this script, that
should delete all the current key/mouse/signal/wheel bindings and then
introduce your settings; however some *duplicates* remain. I think e17
does not allow you to delete certain keybindings, mousebindings, etc.
The output file it creates is a bash script. You can easily open the
output file in an editor and see what commands the output file will
potentially run.
I shall have to give it a whirl and see what I can get :-) It's to bad
about those *duplicates* But I like this much better than doing it
from scratch with the gui... I had E17 on my 54 bit laptop first.
This script made it fairly simple to clone the hard won configuration.

Thanks again!
--
| --- ___
| <0> <-> Joe (theWordy) Philbrook
| ^ J(tWdy)P
| ~\___/~ <<***@ttlc.net>>
Ross Vandegrift
2009-02-13 15:33:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe(theWordy)Philbrook
I wouldn't mind so much except that for a long time now I can keyboard
for hours with the only problem being a case of saddle sores from my
chair... ;-7 But if I wrestle with a mouse pointer for as little as
5 minutes, my hand starts going numb... (similar problem if I try to
do much writing by hand, and good gosh lord help me if I need to sew
a ripped out pair of pants...
Anyway anytime I HAVE to put down the keyboard in favor of intensive
mouse work, I'm unhappy.
I know this is somewhat off-prompt, but there is another solution.

Trackpoint keyboards are the greatest input device ever conceived. I
don't suffer from any pain from using a mouse, I just prefer not to
most of the time. I once used a laptop that had an integrated
trackpoint and I'm hooked.

It took some practice to get really comfortable with the mouse pointer
being controlled by my finger on the keyboard, but I'll never go back.

IBM and Unicomp both make a number of desktop trackpoint keyboards. I
am a Model M lover, so I use the M13: clicky with a trackpoint. But
there's also newer IBM keyboards that are non-mechanical.

Only downside is that they are somewhat hard to find and more
expensive that the usual keyboards.

Ross
--
Ross Vandegrift
***@kallisti.us

"If the fight gets hot, the songs get hotter. If the going gets tough,
the songs get tougher."
--Woody Guthrie
Joe(theWordy)Philbrook
2009-02-14 08:19:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross Vandegrift
Post by Joe(theWordy)Philbrook
I wouldn't mind so much except that for a long time now I can keyboard
for hours with the only problem being a case of saddle sores from my
chair... ;-7 But if I wrestle with a mouse pointer for as little as
5 minutes, my hand starts going numb... (similar problem if I try to
do much writing by hand, and good gosh lord help me if I need to sew
a ripped out pair of pants...
Anyway anytime I HAVE to put down the keyboard in favor of intensive
mouse work, I'm unhappy.
I know this is somewhat off-prompt, but there is another solution.
Trackpoint keyboards are the greatest input device ever conceived. I
don't suffer from any pain from using a mouse, I just prefer not to
most of the time. I once used a laptop that had an integrated
trackpoint and I'm hooked.
It took some practice to get really comfortable with the mouse pointer
being controlled by my finger on the keyboard, but I'll never go back.
Thanks for the tip Ross, but I think you might like them more than i
would... I just googled "trackpoint" to learn that it's what ibm calls a
kind of button mouse... I'll admit I haven't used the IBM version But I
used to work in a high tech warehouse for Lucent (before they
self-destructed) And they used laptops with wireless lans for computer
system access terminals on several of their stock picker vehicles (even
the electric pallet jacks used for selecting from floor level locations)

These had a form of this kind of mouse. For which I found one use.
I had some unusual responsibilities which included some inventory
control functions which needed to have a number from a screen on one
terminal window inserted into another screen on another window before
the transaction could be completed. The button mouse did have the
advantage that once I got it pointed at the spot where the number was
going to appear when I switched back to the screen that provided it,
it would still be pointed in the right place a few minutes later when
I had to complete another transaction...

However when I would occasionally have reason to use a windows program
running on the laptop itself (OK at break time I could get away with
playing mahjong...) I found that I couldn't use the button mouse
continuously any better than using a trackball (Which I'll admit is
better for me than a regular mouse... ( IE if I can use a mouse
for 5 minutes before a problem develops I can probably use a
trackball for 10... But I still want a solution that will let my
trackball and my laptop's <sigh> touchpad gather dust most of the
time...
--
| ~^~ ~^~
| <*> <*> Joe (theWordy) Philbrook
| ^ J(tWdy)P
| \___/ <<***@ttlc.net>>
Loading...